Right? The academic standards should be first and foremost. Of course, there's psychological and social factors that come into play that are important in their development. But I can tell you right now, having grown up in the Ontario public school system, not hearing about a Diwali celebration or the person in my math problem eating curry, I didn’t care, it didn't hurt me. It didn't bother me. It didn't So I'm going to ask you, you mentioned Richard Bilkszto, took a second from me to register. That was the principal who, you know, unfortunately tragically killed himself after being canceled, basically. Can you maybe just because I forget the name, I don't know if you want to name the person, but this was an I think, an outside consultant who came in like this is going to ask you the person who basically berated him and was, you know, saying all these things to him and it was all in recording. So I'm going to ask you, I just bring that up as context. So the question people first of all, people think, no, this can't be happening. Oh, there's a couple of radical teachers, but that's it. No, no, no. All right. A even just one or two radical teachers that you say spreads like a virus, but B, it's not just some people on the front line. It's at the top. So can you tell for people who don't know? Is it the trustees? Is it the government? Is it the school boards? Is it the principal? Is it is outside consultants? Is it who is allowing this garbage to infiltrate the system and poison the minds of every student in the school? That's a good question. I, I would spread the blame like so far, but it almost explains why it even happened to begin with, because everyone nobody feels 100% responsible for what's happening. It's like this is vague. I would say it starts at the ministry. They have a policy on equity in education that basically forces the boards to have. I could be wrong here. I haven't looked at it in a while, but it forces the boards have some kind of policy on equity and how they're going to meet their objectives or what their objectives are and then their five year plan and, you know, all these things. So that is really not helping. I think it should be scrapped completely. Like so many other things in education that are just extra noise and wasted money. Yeah. The ministry. Which is conservative for those Who don't know. Conservative. Like, I can't tell. I can't figure out whether Stephen Lecce is just a massive coward who knows what's happening and is just not doing anything, or if he's actually ignorant or if he's actually completely woke himself because he's really not doing anything like he's just allowing everything happening and the the ministry is the group of giving out directives to school boards to become more woke. Like, if you want to really get a little terrifying, you can go on the ministry website and look up the anti-racism plan or whatever it's called. It's pages and pages of like complete nonsense and how they're going to implement it. And it just keeps getting worse and worse. So yeah, anyway, so the ministry has to do something like, I don't know, I don't know what I honestly have like hope. I used to think, okay, Stephen Lecce's going to eventually wake up and eventually do something with all the pressure. But I really just. Even if he does wake up. No, I have no confidence in the guy whatsoever. No spine. Anyway. Don't get me started on Stephen Lecce. I was going to say, for what it's worth, I think they're all just playing the game and they see what people want and they do it right. It's I'm sure he's fully awake to what he's doing. Yeah. I mean, getting some kind of kick back or some. Sort of benefit from from doing it, I would say, whatever that may be. Well, yeah, but again, back to the cognitive dissonance reduction, and I talked about this months ago in another podcast when we were talking about Wokeism or something. It's once you've done something terrible and what Stephen Lecce and the rest of the government and the principals and so on have done, whether it's about again, about anti-racism, about gender, about any of these issues, the ones that you're always posting about Chanel, once you've done it once again, to be able to step back and say, I had good intentions, I executed them poorly. It's leading to terrible consequences, but I can change course. Most people can't do that. They're too afraid. Again, when I talk about fear, it's just it's that the fear of looking in the mirror and saying, What have I done? But the thing is, if you can acknowledge it, things can be remedied. This is not irreparable, right? There's still a chance. So if if someone's. What would you say? Aside from trying to change the personality, if someone's a teacher or principal, we're in a position to do something. Okay. What can they do? You know what? I can destroy the whole system and force is not going to be total major overhaul. But what do you think someone should should do in any of those positions? Or parent? If you could give advice, what would you say to battle this woke? This woke virus? Okay. Well, if I was a parent to parents, I would say just go all-out. I would like be like my friend Pierre Barnes in BC, who says, No, I am not accepting this. Send me a new form. Is signing up this kid for school. And it said “gender identity”? No, I do not fill out forms with cult language. Send me a new document or something like that. It's a bit extreme, but you know what? I like it. But for teachers, obviously you have to be oh, and parents have to remember they have a lot of power. Like boys care what parents think. I like it a lot. So speak up. You don't have to be as crazy as Pierre, but you can just keep in touch with teachers and tell them that you are against this stuff. When you see that language in an email or read it out and I will do what you gotta do it pull your kid out. If you have to, but In terms of teachers, I would say obviously you have to be more cautious. I don't really advise teachers, just leave teaching because then we're just going to have boards that are even more radical. You want to try to stay as much as you can, but you want to try to plant as many seeds as possible. And I would say like what I said earlier, just to be okay, expressing doubt, not being certain of your own opinion so that you can be canceled for having it, but just being uncertain like period. I would recommend that and I would recommend every teacher find a line that they're not willing to cross, like have a predetermined boundary for what you're willing to go along with. Like, for example, if at one point your school tells you, okay, you're going to be teaching a class, only black kids are allowed in that class. Is that something you're willing to do or is it not okay? It's not school at that point. If that happens, you're going to have to lose your job. Is there something they could do before that that would also make you take a stand, which would put you at risk of losing your job? Maybe. Maybe you can't stay away. They teach five year old kids that they can be whatever gender they want to be. Maybe that's your line. Maybe, you know, but everybody has to have a line. And remember that line, too, that when that time comes around, you're not making more excuses or rationalizing away your inaction. I would say talk to your colleagues, try to have allies as much as possible with you, kind of sense that someone else is not feeling it so much. It can't hurt to bring up to them in private. Just what do you think of this? I don't really like the feel of it. And you'd be surprised at how many people will agree with you. And I have a few teacher friends who I'm in touch with fairly often. And what I'm hearing lately is that basically nobody in the school well, the teachers are I don't even nobody in the school actually, likes this stuff. Like there's one in the York board. Who told me that they had a PD day and the only person who liked this ideology was the presenter, an administrator at the school. Right. Every other person. And I said, Well, why didn't anyone say anything? She's like, Well, we're all too yeah, it's like you can you can have a majority and you still have inaction. But I think that is the first step to know that there is a critical mass of people and you have a good enough bond with those people that if someone gets if someone says something and then they get attacked for it, you will stand up to them. And you always have to make a pact ahead of time to say, okay, we have each other's backs. And then how many people do we have? Is it just the two of us? Who else can we? Can we include in this and expand, expand, expand, have like this dream that one day there's going to be a PD Day and the presenter is just going to realize halfway through that nobody, likes this. And they're actually they are actually the minority. But anyway, we will see. Okay. Now I like the point that you made there, because it's it's about finding what are your values as a teacher and finding a strategy to be able to implement that such that you're not compromising those values. And it's it's scary and it's tricky when your job could be on the line. But like you've articulated in your own journey through this, it's about having the courage to follow the truth and not the tribe. I love the way that you put that. And if I can jump in, I'm going to just because I think this is one thing that for anyone who's listening in as a teacher, parent, administrator, anyone, and I don't know if he deserves credit for having come up with this term, but I know he talks about it all the time. So this is Scott Adams of Dilbert fame. I don't know if you know him. So I think I mentioned another podcast. Malini, Researcher Yes, yes. A cartoonist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And he broke open the whole culture of of work in management in business, because he just you lampooned it, you know, shone a light on how ridiculous so much of it is. And even Elon Musk has a policy about something like I don't he has like a Dilbert score your act if your company or is acting in line with what was highlighted in Dilbert, you do something wrong. So here's something he says, and I think this is something that teacher everybody can bring up. And I know I've got to point to this. And there's another part, he says as well. So know I'm just giving the credit to him. It's not again, it may not be his idea, but he talks about systems versus goals. And what he says is that at least in the states, he says that the Democrats, they have goals, let's say eliminating racism, you know, bringing equity to all treating people fairly. That's the goal. But he says Republicans and by the way, I know both parties are totally broken and corrupt, but okay, so it's just the mentality, though. So here this in Canada, the Liberals, the NDP, they have this goal of fairness, roll equity, etc., etc., Beautiful. Okay. But the well, at least the old school conservatives are the way you'd like to think about them. But their office, they're failing these days. But the conservatives look at the system. So basically, if I have this goal, how do I bring it out or bring it about? So we talk about good intentions versus poor execution. So someone says, you know, don't you care about equity? Are you a racist? If someone said they said no, but if you want to bring about, you know, let's say about let's say fairness for all the system that you have in place, which is, let's say, you know, having classes only for black students or telling white students that they're bad and they're colonialists and everything else like that, okay, that's the system. How is that supposed to bring about the goal of equity and fairness for all? How would you just explain that to me? Please make force the poor, turn the tables around and say, how will that actually work? So again, acknowledging their goal, lauding their goal. Say, yes, it's a beautiful goal. Let's eliminate racism. Great. How are you going to do it? Okay. Right. And because when you talk about the system, what that does is that highlights the flaws in their thinking, their belief that if you're not anti-racist, then you're still racist. What does that actually mean? Define your terms. Melanie. I've talked about that words have meanings. You can't just throw all these things out. So that's one thing. And the second thing, I'll just upset lots of people. Now, why not? Because I'm talking more. So everybody has have. To go. Yes. Okay. Well, I'm not afraid. Oh, no matter. What we say to women, here we go. Let's insult women for a second here. Okay? Because it's not about insulting women. It's not. It's just words that we use. So Scott Adams as well, he talks about how once again, the Democrats, he says, are the party of women and Republicans are the party of men. Now, he's not being literal. I here I am talking to two women who are embodying all these qualities and evincing these qualities that we need in order to better society. So it's not about male female, but it is about the quote unquote masculine ization and feminization of problem solving. And so here's the thing. We know this for a fact. It's documented very well. How do in school, let's see, a five year old girl, an eight year old girl or ten year old girl, if they have someone that they want to hurt, punish, whatever, how do they do it? What is the number one way that we for boys, we know we beat them up. It's physical, nothing is good, but that's what they do. How do girls do it? Reputation damage. Bingo. And if you look at it, that's over the last ten, 20 years. That's wokeism, you know, completely writ large. It's reputation, damage, destroying, canceling, calling you a bigot, a racist, a homophobe, transphobe, whatever it is. That's how they do it. Do they have any evidence? No. And when you ask for any evidence, we ask for proof. When you try to find a middle ground, all they do is start chanting and going, you know, you know, race, the race or whatever it is. Okay. So I think that for people, if they can sort of we need to find a way to like a model to help people see, here's what's going on. This person that you've known your entire life, you never knew them to be a racist or a homophobe, etc.. Yet they're being called that simply because they're pointing out problems in the system. Does that make sense? Is that fair to them? So and again, that's the the and again, I'm just these are just terms of not being literal, but the masculine idea is being more logical, rational, etc.. And I've been on record many times saying both males and females, we're all irrational. Humans are irrational by nature, but we manifest it differently. Right? So again, I'm not saying that literally women and men, I'm just saying let's take those approaches trying to be logical, rational, not emotional. Okay. And trying to help people recognize that these are the dirty tactics that the woke, the left, whatever you want to call them, are employing reputation, damage, reputation, destruction. That's all that cancellation, all of this is to shut you up. Don't deal with your arguments, don't deal with your logic, don't deal with it with your solutions. Paint you as a Nazi. Just to play devil's advocate a little bit there. Well, not not really. Like you said, something that the woke use reputation damaged that stuff for sure. But I can just see how those woke people, not that they're going to listen to this because they ever do, but if they do listen to this episode, they might be thinking, well, isn't that what Chanel does all day? because I do. I post examples all day of teachers pushing ideology on their students or boards, pushing ideology on their teachers, or whatever the case may be. And I just want to point out that when I'm doing that fight and I'm not trying to ruin the reputation of a teacher at all, actually what I'm doing is criticizing a practice, a failing pedagogy, like the pedagogy, the way that they're going about something, what they're teaching. And in fact, I don't do as I said earlier, I don't even really criticize it that often. Sometimes it slips out because I can't help myself. But most of the time I'm just pointing to what they've done. And my point is not to hurt them. It's not to ruin their life in any way. I'm actually convinced that these most of the people, unless they're gaining serious financial advantage from doing this, which is the case for consultants, I’m a little more uncertain about those people. But the teachers, you know, who are teaching, ten years ago, they were totally normal. And now there is this ideology. I think most of them are really well intentioned. And I, I think I was very similar to them just a few years ago. So why would I hate them that what I'm trying to do when I post this stuff is wake up parents and the public and show them just transparently this is what's happening with your school system that you pay for with your taxes. And I wish that didn't have to come at the expense of some teachers. Sometimes, you know, they get they get piled on and stuff, but that is life, I guess. It's not my intention. Well, it's accountability. I mean, if they're going to do this and again, we have our children. We put our children in their classroom and you said this, that yourself, it's the system. You're not you're not trying to destroy their reputation. You're pointing out you're shining a light on a broken system. And the people who are just following orders and just, you know, they're promulgating this unhealthy, broken, destructive system. And I you know, I've seen and I think for hold your post in the last couple of years and again, if it's funny because so many teachers don't want their classes recorded and I get it, I mean, I teach as well. I know we slip up, we make mistakes, whatever, and anything can be taken out of context. I get that part. But what they're terrified of is not not anything specifically specific as well, but it's basically what is the system that they are, you know, imposing on the kids. They're inculcating them with certain beliefs and practices. And again, so I just want to you know, I'm glad that you are, you know, playing devil's advocate here. And I get that. All right. But the point is, again, I'm just saying you're pointing out a system, not the person. Okay. And again, if the person's willing to to promote a system, to engage in it and, you know, if you do it willful if you do it reluctantly, I get it. You know, I don't agree with it at all. And I wish you would say something. Okay, that's bad. It's bad enough. But the person who the people who do it and believe in it and can't see that what they're doing are so arrogant and blind and are unable to recognize that, again, the system is not working. The results are pretty clear. And, you know, if we look at students test scores, if you look at their preparedness for university, if we look at their mental health, if we look at their belief systems in the last number of years, we've seen that there's a plummet. Now, yes, it is also due to COVID. Yes. It's also due to social media. But to say that these two things negate the role of the system of this, again, anti racism and critical race theory and gender ideology and everything like that, to to deny that that's happening is to literally deny reality, to deny that this is a factor in all of that, notwithstanding the COVID and the social media. So. Well it's the they've diagnosed the issue and then they've just doubled down to infinity. So it's it's they might see the test scores and then they're like, oh, this is because we're not implementing this ideology enough. And they do it in such a tricky way because like critical, very culturally relevant and responsive pedagogy, which is the new the new thing, which for anyone who's not aware, is basically mostly comes in in English or French. It has to do with what books they're going to be reading or or even in math class they like. If you have, it's not a problem. You'll throw in some cultural facts or whatever to try to make it more accessible to all of the different identities in your classroom and the well, I don't know them, I heard, but I know the CRRP the culturally relevant and responsive pedagogy that I was just describing. The first thing that first kind of it I guess, is high academic standards or something like that. So and then after that, it's, oh, I'd choose the books based on the race of whoever wrote the book or what characters are in the book or how much ideologies in the book. Yeah, great. But the first thing they write is the academic standards. So then somebody comes along and says, Is this Why are we pushing this this crap based on the identities of the characters and stuff like that? What happened to actually interesting stories for kids where they can actually learn a lesson and learn about the world and not just be obsessed with their own identity and what happened to that? We should be focusing on academics, we should be focusing on that. And then you say, No, no, no, you don't get it does put academic standards first, look: It's written right here and it convinces so many people and parents view that and be like, Oh, good, This approach puts academic standards first. It's like, No, it doesn't. It's all lies. They played yes all the time. And literacy doesn't mean learning to read anymore. It means learning to have the right political views. Is political literacy or critical literacy? It's not actually reading. This is what's happening. They're changing the words right in front of you, and half the people don't have a clue, so they go along with it and here we are. And it's it's so sad because like you said, obviously kids are going to school for learning, Right? The academic standards should be first and foremost. Of course, there's psychological and social factors that come into play that are important in their development. But I can tell you right now, having grown up in the Ontario public school system, not hearing about a Diwali celebration or the person in my math problem eating curry, I didn’t care, it didn't hurt me. It didn't bother me. It didn't affect my math learning. I can tell you that for sure. But somebody has decided along the way that that is of the utmost importance and is what is going to help people learn. I'll use math again, learn math more effectively. Meanwhile, the EQAO scores, from what I recall, whenever the last data that came out was was garbage. And yes, like Oren said, there was COVID and all kinds of different factors involved there. But overall, kids are not learning the way that they should. Meanwhile, all this energy and all these resources are being spent on this stuff that really should be secondary or even tertiary. Right? Yeah. And teachers colleges are just making it 100% worse because they're focused on all these approaches that don't help, don't don't work in the classroom, but they sound so good and new teachers don't know any better. So they just take it up and then they get to class. And instead of focusing on the knowledge that they have and imparting that knowledge to their students, they're focused on making it fun and hands. And the whole idea is if someone walks in your class and you're at the front of the class speaking to your students, how dare you do that? That is terrible because that imposes a hierarchy of power and whatever. And you're a learner too, and don't call. And that's triggering to some races. Yes. Right. Yeah. Now we have principals referring to themselves as lead learners, You know. I do not know. Okay, everyone get get lead learner. So I'm learning to I'm on this journey with you. I just happened to be one of the lead learners. So how many leader the learners? Oh, my goodness. And I know, I know Orwell, 1984. I know it's overused, but what you said, I think I don't I just want to highlight that where you said where people, you know, you look at the CRRP and go, look, look, look at the top academic excellence. Academic standards are right there. So therefore, this is what we're doing. This is exactly what Orwell warned about. We're using language to manipulate thought. That's always been the case. And really it's putting lipstick on a pig and calling it or whatever. It's like it's and again, a normal person who's not doing a deep dive into this would say, Sounds right, sounds reasonable. And they wouldn't want to think that we go with fear again. They would be terrified. They can't handle the possibility that I'm sending my kid to a school or to a program, to a system every day in which they may actually be harmed. Most parents don't want to think that, and most parents don't have the effort or the time, the resources, the mental wherewithal, the psychological capability to go. But what if they are? Let me look into that. Let me do my homework. Most parents would rather just, you know, placate themselves with this false belief that everything's fine. Again, it's right in the name, it says, or the program. Right. And I think it's really anything happens. It wasn't their fault. Right. Exactly. It absolved of any responsibility, but it's right there. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I think teachers the same some of that, some of the teachers, not the ones that we deal with because the teachers that we deal with are the ones who actually see the reality and they know how much they're causing. And I think we said this in a previous podcast, and sure enough, you're seeing this with your teachers. But every teacher that I had and I it when I say this in almost all of it either had tears or they resonated with them. I said, All of your colleagues and friends, the same ones who are going through what you're going through, they're all the best teachers because it's killing them, seeing what's being done to a profession that they loved, that they've devoted themselves to the shitty teachers. They don't care. They're just, you know, they're just going along, getting their paycheck. They don't care what's happening to the kids. And they're the ones, unfortunately, who are going to remain when all the good teachers are on stress leave or have taken early retirement or been canceled out of existence. So, yeah, it's still heartbreaking that teachers like there's one teacher. I talk to her on the phone for 30 minutes or something, like it was nothing. She just kind of explained what was happening. And I not much. I didn't I didn't feel all that hope anyway, next day or something, I got an email from her saying, I feel like I'm able to breathe again. And it was like, Oh my God, this is so heartbreaking. Like, how is it that just that simple act of listening to a teacher for a half hour can be that impactful? so crazy is it that someone can feel so grateful and so amazing just because someone has bothered to listen to them? That says something about the education system. And by the way, this was in Alberta. So if there's any Albertans listening and thinking that you're probably just fine because you have a great leader, that is not the case. Like it's being pushed everywhere. I will say probably less than Alberta, maybe less than Catholic school, a little bit. It's still in Catholic schools. It's all over. And even some private schools are known to be the locus of the work. So what do we do? Right? Yeah. It's my sincere hope that some teachers are listening and hear this and are able to relate to what you're saying and have that moment of, Oh, okay, I'm not alone. I'm not the only teacher that feels this way because or and I have spoken about this before, even in our profession, it can feel so isolating that we feel like we're thinking so differently than other colleagues until we speak up and people come to us and say, Yeah, I was thinking that too. I just don't feel like I can say anything about it, right? So like Oren said from the get go, I feel like we could have an eight hour long podcast about this and I hope we can have you on again in the future because like there's there's so much more to talk about. And usually we end the podcast with asking like, what can people do about this? But we've talked about that quite a bit as far as how parents can get involved. What fellow teachers can do. So I wonder if instead you can maybe touch on what do you feel the biggest misunderstanding about you and your quest is out there. That's a good one. But where to start? Like, I think like the misunderstanding is that I'm the indoctrinated one, that I have the far right that I want to import into the classroom. And I want to politicize education because I want kids to be treated equally and to learn to think for themselves. So the like, I'm still waiting for that day that a person will see the light and will go through my tweets again and think, what has she ever said that was actually hateful? Oh my gosh, how was I so convinced she was hateful? Maybe I'll reach out to her. Maybe we can go for dinner or something. I would do that in a heartbeat. I it would make my day. I, I, I don't know how people are so convinced that my goal is to be hateful. What I want is for all kids to succeed in life and be happy and healthy at school and to be included. What I don't like is that we are imposing group identities, divisions, and we're we're teaching ideology as if it’s fact like and obviously you would disagree with me on that because they think that it is factual that you are born with a gender identity. And if you feel that your boys and you're really your boy and all of this, I disagree with that. I think that, you know, having studied biology, there are two sexes, male and female and and it's not because I hate someone who identifies as the other side that in fact, I feel a lot of compassion for them. I think they're they need help. They need help to accept the body that they're in. Just like an anorexic person would need help to accept the body that they're in. We're not going to give them liposuction to help them feel better. We're not going to, you know, give kids all kinds of surgeries because they don't like the way they look. And that is that is kind of where where this ideology leads. So, um, yeah, I mean, it's it's, it's funny that the perception of me is so bad when there is actually no proof that I actually have any hateful views because I don't I'm very upfront about what I think. And it's all there on Twitter. I've got like 15,000 tweets up. So hopefully people will see that one day So that goes back to what we're talking about, you know, reputation, destruction or reputation damage. Right? It doesn't matter what the evidence is. It doesn't matter how much proof that you you show. It doesn't matter that there's an absence of any bad tweets or anything like any bad sentiments. Right. People will simply just say hateful, bigoted, racist, homophobic, transphobe take your pick and they will assume that everyone should just like any good religion. No offense, Malini Sorry or cultish, say any good cult, just accept it without question. Because to to question it is heresy. And what you've been doing now is heresy or heretical to the education system because you did question, you did challenge, you did speak out and you suffer the consequences. You were excommunicated. So I know you quit because of health and everything like that. But the sentiment was excommunication. They did not want to hear from you. And we need more people like you and others in the different fields to speak out. So I'm going to ask, what would you say if if people are worried about you and they're saying, my goodness, this is what happened to her, can you say this is why if you can this is why it's worth it? You've talked a bit before about that, about, you know, your values and everything, but can you maybe just kind of recap that and why it's worth to speak out? Yeah, well, for starters, I'll say when I started speaking out, I had a lot of people coming at me in the end and whatever. I got threats. I mean, I was also running for school board last year, which is a whole other thing of me throwing myself into the public with all these views and stuff. I got a lot of hate though, but this was when I was more of a nobody. And I think that the really like to take advantage of that and they see that you don't have all that much support. And so they think that they can manipulate you. And if you just get through that initial hardship of having no one but knowing you're doing the right thing, just stick it out. Just be very patient. The support will come later. You can accept that. You can't expect that it will come soon, but it will come eventually. If you put yourself in a position to receive that support. And I was just thinking to myself the other day, I haven't gotten any hate mail from woke people in like months, months and months. They don't come after me anymore. And the reason is they know that I could not care less. I'm not going to cave to them. I'm not going to apologize to them. And in fact, if they come out me, I'm probably going to look at look at their Twitter page and I'm probably going to find out where they work and what they're teaching kids. And I'm going to I'm going to show that to the world. And that might not be great for them. So like, I just like sticking it out. You're going to see changes. It's going to get easier. You're going to get stronger because you're used to having your ideas, criticize. And that's a really important skill to have and you're learning along the way. So it's exciting and it's it's yeah, it's an adventure. Like Jordan Peterson. Jordan Peterson says it's you're actually living your own life. You're actually speaking your own thoughts and seeing where that goes. And it's helped me relax a lot because I trust that by speaking the truth, I will get where I need to go. You know, wherever that you I can't predict the future necessarily, but I know that if I do what's right and, you know, try my best to stay in line with those ideals, things will work out. And I have that kind of faith, which I didn't have before. But I think when you're stuck in that fear and self-centeredness that self-censorship, you don't your brain is kind of in a position where you can't even explore. You can't even think about what it would be like to speak your mind freely and to be on the other side. It's really hard to do that. I think you have to just do it. You just have to take the leap and then see what and remember not to apologize ever to anyone under any circumstance until you start on it for about three weeks and, you know, for sure that you've done something wrong. Don't do because of the social pressure, because that will be used against you. So important. And again, that goes back to having courage, not being afraid. Okay. And if I can just piggyback on that just one thing, Molly, if you don't mind. Yeah, okay. Just because I. I forget the name of the person who just happened this past week, the. The culture that was shut down by Scott Pietkowski. Can you just. Yeah. What happened? The good update, please. Well, to be honest, I haven't read all the details, so I was very hesitant to see what happened specifically in this case. But I know that this was a teacher who raised concerns about the age appropriateness of the book. And then she got shut down by the chair of the board and she said something that she she was going to be violating human rights, human rights, the human rights code or whatever. So she was shut down. She wasn't able to do her ten minute delegation, and she ended up suing the board. And then I think what happened was they countered with some kind of like slap it. but either way now, the judge said, No, no, no, this was completely wrong. He wasn't right to shut you down and all of this stuff. So it is a huge win. And it just shows that when you stick to what you know is true and right. Sometimes good things happen. So hopefully that will play out in other cases, too. Exactly. And I think the Waterloo Region District School Board, if I'm not mistaken, and the head of is Scott Pietkowski. I don't mean to label people if you want to if you want to look it up, look up the story. There was a strong rebuke by the judge in this case and basically saying that you were trying to use human rights violations as an excuse. It was as a weapon as opposed to it, you know, a valuable tool or, you know, So anyway, so that was a good thing. And there was another one. Mike Oh, my gosh. The other teacher, Mike Ramsey, is it my? Ramsey He's a trustee or trustee? Sorious as well. He's fighting. He's still fighting, isn't he still fighting this case? Yeah. Okay. So I just want to. Get you in the stone who's fighting to get a lot of people over here. Yeah. All right. So, Chanel, thank you so much for being here. You've provided so much insight. You have so much courage doing what you do. And I don't say that to to pander or anything like that. Truly, it takes a lot to be able to speak up, speak out, and stay true to your values. So as a parent, I truly appreciate what you're doing as somebody who works in the public as well. I appreciate what you're doing. That's so, so important for people to be able to speak up and do the right thing. So thank you for being here today. Thank you so much. You guys are both great. And it was really, really fun to talk to you guys and explore the the psychological kind of, you know, during the season. Well, we've got much more to explore with you. So, yes, as Malini said, we hope that come on again, discuss much more of this and I hope people will have all your description, your information in the description. People can you check you out? And by the way, when I said you're a nobody, you become a somebody because of this, because you stayed strong, you weathered the storm, the cliche. But the fact is, everything you said about what not to do and what to do if people take a page in the playbook. Again, just recognizing Chanel started as a nobody was they tried to cancel you. They tried to jump and pile on you. You stood strong. And that, you know that's it's it's lacking that that the lack of the fearlessness, the courage integrity. Okay. We need more people. I know the people are out there. So like I said, I just hope people will will take heart and that you're a great model for all of this. And so thank you so much for joining. Okay. So really. Thank you very much. Okay. That's very kind. And remember that there are organizations who will stand up for your TDF JCC if you do something. It is very reasonable. They will help you. So don't don't panic. Get in touch with someone and, you know, fight it to the end. And also fair and fire. Okay, These are these organizations as well that are speaking up for education. So again, thanks. Thank you again. And for everybody else again, please check out Chanel's page. Be inspired by her and on that note, until next time, keep your eyes on the road and your hands upon the wheel.