I want to interject the I'm sure you're sensing the look on my face, like what? What the f really honestly, I can't help but think that there’s some and I don't know, you know, the true facts surrounding this, but I can't help but think that there's some element of intentional disrespect that comes from that Hello and welcome to Awake at the Wheel. In this episode, we're going to be talking about the modern sex talk. So in my clinical practice, I've come across many parents lately who have been very perplexed about how to have the sex talk with their kids. It looks very different than it did in our childhood, in our adolescence, because the landscape is completely different. I read something just the other day that said that dating is now obsolete and what kids, I hate saying this, kids, teens, whatever you want to call them, are gravitating towards, are casual hookups. Developmentally speaking, emotionally speaking. This does not set them up for the future as far as developing strong, healthy relationships. But this is the world that we're living in. So, Oren, tell me some thoughts that you have on this off the bat. Well, for those who don't know, I have been teaching human sexuality the psychology of human sexuality for over 20 years, about 100 times. So I have. And it's not the students are anywhere from 18 to 78. So I have a wide range of students. I have my clinical practice, has lots and lots of people dealing with relationship and sexual issues. And so I have seen over the last 20 years or last many years, but 20 years professionally, some real shifts and in the dynamics in the nature of relationships and dating and so on. But also what's been consistent is most people on a fundamental level still do want the same thing. The problem is what they're seeing and what they're being told they should have or they can have is different from those fundamental, fundamental wants and needs, which I guess we'll get into today. Yeah, and some of the main factors, and certainly not all of them, but the access that teens, specifically boys, have to pornography, that has certainly changed and increased. I read just the other day as well that the average 12 year old, almost all of the average 12 year olds have come across pornography that is, you know, very eye opening because 12 is quite young. And again, developmentally speaking, I don't know if they're ready to to be experiencing such things. The CDC does a study every few years about teen risk taking behavior. And what I read was that from the eighties and nineties to now, interestingly, it's one of these things where it seems like it's good news. But when you read into it a bit more, it's really not. Fewer teens are actually engaging in sex. So in the eighties and nineties, it was about 50% of teens. Whereas nowadays in the 2010s and and onwards it's about 30%. But the change isn't that, you know, kids are just, following the rules a bit more or being a little bit more virtuous in their choices. I guess we could say it's actually that they are engaging in more sexual behavior such as things like oral sex. Looking at that as something, you know, as less intimate than kissing, some say. So it's just it's it's one of these things where when parents speak to me about this and they're, you know, utterly horrified. I work with teens as well, and I hear the casual nature and the casual approach that they have to these things. I think that something really needs to change. And we're here to help with the conversation that parents are having about sex. Like I said, from the get go here, it's not the same talk that we would have had as kids if we even had it. Yeah, And I got to tell you, like, I am very specific when I talk to my patients about these things. And in class, by the way, because I tell students, I say they say the word sex. I don't I said I often say sex is meaningless. Okay? And they look at me. I go, What I mean is the word sex. Because if you said to someone, did you have sex? What they assume you mean by sex, Maybe something very different from what you assumed. Same with hookups. And it's funny because when hookups start becoming more popular in the public vernacular, I would ask my students, I say, So what is a hookup? And I love watching. They're thinking like, Hey, Grandpa, you don't even know what that is, right? That smirk back. And I'd say, No, I know what it is. You don't know what it is, because I know that everyone has a different definition of what it is. All right. So and then I show them the research that clearly shows that what people think. Again, if you ask a hundred people what is a hookup? Some will say, well, it has to involve penetration. Others could say, you know, it's just it's kissing others. They just hanging out. There's different definitions. So when it comes to sex and this is not anything new, this has been around from the beginning of research, even because they would say, for example, you know, 70 only 25% of women have an orgasm while having sex or frequently or regularly have an orgasm. And sometimes these comedies say only 25 women, but 25% of women have an orgasm during sex. And by the way, for those who are watching, we didn't give NSFW w warning because I teach, I teach this and I do my clinical practice all the time. I talk. About it. It's safe for OUR work. Oh, for sure. And essential. And so everyone might not feel the same, but, you know, I sort of have to stop myself even in, in therapy because I say to people, just so you know, because of my background and having been raised in a sex store, basically because my mother opened up Canada’s first sex store. So I you know, I have a different take on this. So I might be saying some words really casually that some people go, Oh my God, I can't hear it. But, you know, we're professionals, we're adults. So and if anyone feels uncomfortable talking or hearing us talk about it, how are you going to do with your teen or your adolescent or your family? Anyway, so what I'm saying is, you know, the word sex, the research was really it was unclear. So, for example, 25%, only 25% of women have an orgasm when they have sex. Well, is that always have an orgasm? Is it usually? Sometimes, number one. And what is sex? Is it, you know, penetrative penile vaginal penetration? Is it oral sex? Is it masturbation? Right. So it took many years for the researchers and I would astound my students. I still do. Showing them some of the research. I go, these are the so-called experts. And the terminology they're using, the questions are asking. Their methodology is so flawed that anybody who has any experience with sexual matters would look at them and go, How the hell did this go through a pilot project? How did this go through all these meetings where someone didn't say, Oh, excuse me, that's a really dumb question, or That's the wrong way of asking, or No one's going to know what you mean. So, you know, or they have different definitions. So this is a problem that has plagued research for many, many, many years in the field and has plagued the experts. And once again, getting back to what we're talking about, it will make it difficult for a parent to have these discussions. If they think I'm talking one thing and my child's talking another. So what I started to say at the beginning was I've had some patients who will tell me like, you know, like the way they talk, it sounds like they've never had any sex whatsoever, any sexual relations at all. And then I find out later on, Oh, yeah, you know, they've hooked up, they've had intercourse, they've done whatever, you know, had oral sex with, you know, dozens of people. Okay. But their terminology was, well, it wasn't in a relationship, so it didn't count kind of thing. I never had a steady relationship. Okay, well, fine. But you still had sex or however you want to define it. So the point is, parents have to be very mindful that any word that they use could mean something totally different from their child. And it might sound strange. So in my sex class, I say to students, like, I know this sounds so, I'm choosing the best word here, but is it so clinical practice actually in clinical clinical trials or is it sound so sterile? But I will say sexual intercourse or penile vaginal intercourse, because, again, sex can mean so many different things. And if we're not talking about the, say, heterosexual relations, then, you know, sex can be something totally different as well. So I will be very specific. I will say oral sex, penile, vaginal intercourse, whatever the case may be. So parents have to also be mindful of the terminology. Yeah. And to that point, I guess before we even get into, you know, specific strategies and things to be aware of, I think that it's incredibly important for parents to get comfortable with that terminology themselves and hearing it and discussing it because it's not going to happen otherwise. Right. It's it's not the days of we, you know, come up with these, you know, cute little names for things. No, that's that's not going to fly. That's not helpful. That's not educational. Secondly, I think that whether parents want to accept or not, their teenagers are having sex. You know, Johnny and Suzy are not they're the pure little children that you think that they may be. Research tells us that. And again, developmentally speaking, this is a time when, you know, their hormones are racing, their bodies are changing, and it's completely normal for them to engage in sex. So that's a really important thing for parents to understand and accept from the get go as well. And what I want to focus a little bit of time on here is the fact that there are biological differences between boys and girls and the way that parents have the talk with their daughters versus their sons is going to be different. And perhaps this is controversial given, you know, the landscape at the moment where, you know, we we seem to think that boys and girls are the same and equal, that that simply is not so. So one of the things that I think we should start with is the brain, the way in which the brain experiences arousal is different with boys and girls. The goal of sex is different with boys and girls. And the way that they interpret sex is very different with boys and girls. It's, you know, I guess long story short, it's different right now. Just we have to be clear here. We're talking on average for most cases, when you talk about the psychological component neurologically, yes, males and females are different. I know that's controversial in today's day and age. Right. And I know now I know Malini, and we've talked about this before. You come from a more conservative background than I do. I am very, very again, I was raised in a sex store. So I'm but when people hear me talk about these things, I'm going to sound like some, you know, old conservative, you know, person talking about this. But it's just facts. It's reality. And for many, many years, especially, females have been sold, let's say, a lie. And the problem is people are we've talked many times about black and white thinkers. So the lie is that, you know, hey, sex for you is exactly the same as it is for males. Or you can do all these things and still have a healthy, you know, the same outlook, healthy physical outlook. It hasn't like it's totally the same, etc., etc.. And or you should want these things or you shouldn't want that. Well, everybody's different. So being told that I should be a certain way or I should feel a certain way, it might not fit in with my needs, with how I process things, you know, again, mentally, psychologically, emotionally, physically, interpersonally. Right. And then we're going to talk about that, how it is really doing a lot of damage. If I can just do a callback to a previous episode. I was saying that the greatest scam, because you're talking about access to pornography, we talked about it before, it can't be highlighted enough. The fact is that when children who are not mentally, psychologically, emotionally or socially developed enough to deal with the intricacies of porn and quite frankly, the harmful narratives of most porn when they're exposed to at such a young age, it does damage. It doesn't make them more informed, it doesn't make them more savvy and it doesn't make them better self agents or, you know, or more self efficacious. It's harmful people have to understand that. And as you say, to think that kids haven't been exposed to some form of porn, you're lying to yourself. Absolutely. Yeah. So let's talk about females first. And one of the main differences that we know research tells us about females and sexuality. So generally speaking, when it comes to sex, females, they are looking for intimacy, conversely with males. And this isn't to say that men the typical man does not look for intimacy, but the goal of sex is generally to satisfy an urge and to, you know, experience that pleasure and satisfaction. And one of the key differences, too, is, you know, with the brain and the way that the brain is perceiving and processing it, women's brains tend to have a higher release of an experience of oxytocin, which is estrogen dependent. So, you know, this is a female difference, which again, connects to that desire for intimacy. Conversely, with men it is. And boys and males, it is testosterone dependent, which is also linked to aggression and urge. This sounds funny, but sometimes, you know, the urge for sex with males is as strong as having to go pee. So it's not like and I think the old saying is, what does it matter from Mars? Women are from Venus. And this is one of the the big differences here. And as a side note, in couples therapy, one of the biggest things that I and I'm sure you see as far as the myths mismatch in desire comes from a lack of understanding of those key differences. Right. And and again, I want to say it we'll say it a few times, but people have to understand we're talking averages. So, yes, of course, there are a number of women who have a very high sex drive or right where sex is just, you know, it's just it's a thing. It's nothing else. Yes. And there are many men who do want that emotional intimacy. I've got many patients who like that more so than their female partners want that. Right. So, again, we're talking averages and those averages are usually neurologically dependent. And it's evolutionarily based. So so again, to deny this is to deny basic biology, biology, basic reality and so on. So nothing we're saying, you know, we're not shaming people, we're not slut shaming or sex shaming or anything like that. We're just talking facts. And if you don't like the facts, we'll find you'll find good, solid, credible research to disprove them. Yeah, and this is the thing to to echo what you said there. You know, of course, there's there's always going to be variance and differences, but we're looking at, you know, what the science says and what the science tells us. But, you know, when we look at these differences between males and females and again, how parents are to have this talk with their children, it's really important to also understand what the the social factors are that are surrounding teenage sexuality nowadays. I feel so old saying this, but nowadays and perhaps back in my day, I don't know. But generally speaking, teen boys and girls are hooking up not because of physical attraction, but often because of the social status of the partner that they're seeking out. So that's wild to me that, you know, it's it's very little to do on both ends about sexual satisfaction and desire in many cases. Right. And a few things. First of all, even though we're talking about research, I want to be very clear. My classes, I spent a lot of time. I spend a lot of time poking holes in so much of the bad research. So Malini and I are saying this with the understanding that the research is not perfect. Okay? There are many problems with the methodology, the interpretation and so on. So but having said that, if you have enough studies, if you've done enough research, you are looking at the different studies. You see things that look like pretty solid patterns or trends. So yes, so the motives for sex, Right. That's really important. I'm going to you know, I, I it's a bit of a loaded question. Okay. But I just want to put this out there. Just and if I said this in a previous episode, please stop me. Okay. the bottom line was that so many female students would say that. And again, I also I won't give the whole question. I'm just saying what the answer was. Okay. That's so many of them said that if they were having a one night stand and the partner was doing something that just wasn't pleasurable, did we talk about this before or. We did. But I think it's relevant and we talked about it in the context of females feeling liberated in their sexuality. So we did talk about it, but we talked about more but with with respect to adults. So I think it bears repeating. Yeah. So these are adults, these are professional women. These are accomplished women who were saying that if they were with a partner like a one night stand and it wasn't enjoyable, they would just basically say nothing and hope the guy finishes quickly and then they can, you know, get the hell out. And one of my students, you know, spoke up and said, you know, it was a gay male. He said, excuse me, I don't want to be rude, but if you're having a one night stand, what is the purpose if not to have pleasure? So why would you sacrifice that just because it's too much of a bother or you don't want to get into an argument or I don't want to ruin the person's ego or something like that. So. So these are, again, accomplished professional women saying this. So a young, you know, a teen girl, she, in most cases is going to feel far less capable and have far less of a belief that I deserve to be able to express my desires, my needs, my wants or displeasure. You know, with even a stranger. And so it's important for parents, if you are going to have this talk to say, the number one thing, the number one thing you should be teaching your child is self agency, speak up for yourself. And that could involve saying, Hey, I don't want to do this or I'm not ready for this. And everything I know, again, we sound like old parents here. Well, this one of us is an old parent. You know, you're a young parent. So but the point is, these are core factors that the person has to be comfortable with if they're going to have any form of healthy sexuality. And Absolutely. And I think, you know, with with so many things in life, but especially in this realm, it is so vitally important for parents to teach their child how to advocate for themselves, how to speak up for themselves, how to say no. Right. And I feel like a commercial from the eighties just say no. But truly, like that is an incredibly important tool to have. And to the point that you were making earlier, what I read recently is that actually to a couple of the points that you just made, that female teens are often doing it because they feel socially they have to the boys won't think that they're, you know, cool or acceptable if they don't, but also they're deriving very little pleasure from it. Oftentimes, I mentioned earlier, you know, others there's a higher degree of or higher frequency of oral sex happening, but it's not reciprocal. It's you know, females performing this on boys. They feel awful about it. They feel dirty about it after. But they do it because they feel they, you know, quote unquote, have to. Right. And that's. It's gross. It's terrible. And that's huge. And you said this earlier about for a lot of young women, males as well, that kissing is it's more taboo, more risky because more intimate than oral sex. And again, as someone who's taught human sexuality a hundred times over the past 20 something years, I saw the change both in the research but also in the discussions. I was having with thousands of people. Right, that it was a clear change. And I'll tell you right now, I've had so many women as women sometimes. Yeah, Usually they're full, full on women where they say what you said, but minus the insight. So what they said was, you know, I blew a bunch of guys in, in junior high school or in high school and at the time see a lot of them, they were able to rationalize it. And the power of the unconscious, Right. The power of defense mechanism. So they told themselves, I am empowered. I am a sexually liberated young woman because I can have oral sex. I'm choosing, I'm having it with. And they lied to themselves. And later came the shame and the disgust and everything. But at the time in that era of, you know, blowjobs left, right and center, they were just suppressing and repressing the reality of what it was doing to them. But later on they said, I realize, like, that's not liberating. My boyfriend was, you know, basically having his friends come over. I have to blow them or or I wasn't really choosing them. I never said no. So while selective is that, you know, and then they will admit, yeah, I did it because it got a self-esteem boost or I did it for, you know, for for the street cred and stuff like that. Or I was I felt pressured by and a lot of time that the self esteem books which by the way equally for male and female that's one that's one thing that's really not a sex difference. You know depending on the study you'll find different results. But many, many people will say, yes, sex, you know, it's an esteem boost, which And if you think about it, I am supposedly increasing my self esteem by degrading myself. Right. And non reciprocal oral sex or whatever is being recorded. It's being shared, I'm being coerced, whatever else. But somehow that's, you know, elevating my self esteem. This is the kind of contradictory thinking and realities that parents have to know is happening among many of these young people. And at the risk of rehashing one of our most recent episodes, we were we talked about this as far as, you know, young women in their twenties and thirties. But again, I think it's it's absolutely relevant to this topic to you because it's obviously starting somewhere. It starts in, you know, their earliest sexual interactions where it's this guise of, you know, female empowerment, where in reality it absolutely is not, you know, these these sexual encounters that they have, like you mentioned, I mean, I'm naive, I suppose I'll say, because I hear these stories again from from clients, from parents that, you know, I don't know how else to put it other than these girls are being passed around, like you said, going from one guy to the next. And you know, parties that they attend, that's oftentimes the activity of choice. It just blows my mind, no pun intended. But speaking of parties here, alcohol, alcohol's a huge factor that's involved in these, too. And again, a key difference between boys and girls here is the reason that they're drinking in these sexual encounters. So oftentimes boys are seeking out alcohol because it helps with, you know, performance anxiety, premature ejaculation, you know, loosening them up and and helping them get into whatever it is that they're about to frankly, receive. Whereas females tend to report that it has more to do with numbing their emotions and not wanting to experience again. There's disgust in that, this shame that we're talking about. So for parents in having this conversation, you know, it's not just about sex, it's about going to these parties, about consuming alcohol and being abundantly aware of the fact that, you know, you may be encouraged to or coerced into doing these things. But if you're drinking, first of all, it's going to wear down your ability to think clearly and advocate for yourself and say no. And secondly, you know, if people are doing it to numb those emotions and to know about what they know are going to be negative emotions, maybe take a step back and think about that. Exactly. Why are you doing that in the first place? Yeah. Yeah. And now one thing that parents have to be very careful about, you have no credibility in your kids eye, right? What do you know? Parents. You know, like, it's so hard. So, you know, you have to make sure that you're up to date on the information, Find out what the kids are like, what are they? Expose themselves to. Most likely is tiktok, which, you know, it's a fountain of misinformation. It's not a fountain, it's a waterfall of misinformation. So, you know, you want to make sure that you're using language that's, you know, accurate, sorry, not accurate whatsoever. It's in common use among, you know, with your kids, relevant and current language, I guess, is what you're. Saying, because even though in class, I'll say penile vaginal intercourse, if you say that to your child, there's no you know, fall over laughing. So doing that and also being careful because here's the thing the kid wants most sorry, not all of it, but many kids, they want to be able to poke holes either. It's to deny what's going on. Like it was not me. I know some friends. Some of them say, No, that's crazy, not happening. Others will go, Yeah, I know some of my friends are like that, but it's not me. Others will try to say, You know, other kids want to just show how out of touch the parent is clueless, whatever. And I got to tell you, one thing that happened I'm going to say about 15 years ago is between 15 and 20 years ago and it was on TV shows and everything like that. But this is an example. What happens if a parent sees something doesn't inform themselves well enough and they just go off the handle, which is about, like I said, 15 to 20 years ago. I remember because I gave a talk, a big talk, and someone asked me about this and it was rainbow parties. I'm not sure if you're aware of Rainbow. Yeah. I remember learning about those in an undergrad, actually. So sometime ago. Right. And the fact is, though, they weren't really happening. So in case I was wondering the enemy, it may have happened in one or two places. Okay. But it sounded like and there was a news story that all 12 year old kids are doing this. And so there were two factors going on. There was rainbow parties and then there were bracelets. I don't remember that as well at the same time. Right. So just for anyone who doesn't know, it's funny because again, I would ask hundreds and hundreds of thousands of students over the years, have you heard of these things? Some did, many hadn't, and sometimes was their own generation. They had gone to junior high at that time and they hadn't even heard it, so it wasn't as widespread as it was being made to be, you know, seem in the media. But the idea with rainbow parties was that a guy would go to a party and the whole idea was you try to get as many blowjobs as he could from girls and they all have different colored lipstick. So it would be like a rainbow on his penis, which if it were actual, you know, real oral sex, it would be it wouldn't be a rainbow. You'll be a smudge party. Okay. We'll be right. Because it wouldn't look like nice little lines like that. But that was the whole idea was having that. And the other one was that these girls are all wearing these different colored bracelets and the different colored bracelet would indicate what they had done or what they're into and so on. And when they actually interviewed these girls, they were like saying, That's just fashionable. I don't actually do this Kind of like a lot of the girls are saying they just doing because they knew everyone else was wearing it or, you know, it was just to fit in or something like that, but it wasn't actually happening. So if you come to your kid with these scare stories, you know, scary stories about what's going on and the kid can just laugh you off, you've lost credibility. So just be mindful, right? Don't go over the top, Right? Be casual like, you know, come slowly, tentatively, right. Ask lots of questions. Don't just complain about about, you know, you're not attacking them. You're finding out from them what they think about these things, what they know and so on, and trying to foster a healthy discussion. And if you did it perfectly, I'd be I'd be surprised if more than half of the parents were able to get any types of answers from their kids. Right. So you're not expecting it to go? Well, it's a you know, it's going to take time and everything. That's an embarrassing conversation. And kids don't often don't even have it with their friends or the partner, let alone with a parent. So if you aren't able to do it yourself either, find really good videos that talk about these things that teach self-empowerment right? Or if there's someone else that you know who's, you know, who can talk to them, who has more credibility, maybe a sibling or something like that. Right. But you know, it's not what you say that's relevant. It's what people hear. So you need to make sure that the source of the information is something that kids are going to listen to and actually benefit from. And those videos, there are good videos out there. I doubt they're on TikTok. Maybe they are. I'm just very biased against TikTok. But there are good videos. Ask your friends, ask the experts, find somebody you know, we really will connect with them. Not to one old person and a younger person here, but maybe, you know, adolescents and stuff like that. They might connect better as well. Yeah, I want to I want to go back to what you were saying before, but the changes that you've seen over, you know, the 20 some odd years that you've been teaching, because that's really fascinating to me that, you know, you were able to kind of witness that change. And I touched on it earlier that one of the biggest changes is the the abundant access to online pornography. So I certainly think that that's one of the culprits. And you know, regarding that, there's there's some evidence that suggests that teen boys would actually prefer to engage in masturbation, to online porn versus courting an actual girl, because it's it's easier, it's quicker. But there's some obvious huge problems that come along with that in terms of, again, future relationships and not being able to properly engage in and facilitate the development of those. And secondly, there's a development of some real unrealistic expectations as far as what sex actually is. But that aside, I want to talk a bit more about the changes that you noticed over the years. Well, that the porn part, I mean, and this maybe you'll let me know whether we talk about it today or in a different episode. There is some really important information and misinformation about that, and the experts disagree as well. So at some point, I think we should talk about the actual impact, the neurological, psychological and interpersonal impacts of pornography, modern day pornography. So maybe we'll talk about that at another date. Okay. So as far as the changes, yes, I mean, the number one, the biggest change and when I was telling this to colleagues, older colleagues especially, it blew their mind when I talked about the casualness with which people have oral sex, because back in the days it was considered such a taboo act. And one of my colleagues who was a fair bit older than I was, he was saying like, you know, only the like what it was called, like the rebels and the bad kids and the ones with tattoos used to do that in the old days. But that was many, many, many years ago. Okay. That it just became such thanks to porn. It became just such a banal act. Like it's just it's it's nothing like there's a and I think that's the biggest one as far as the changes that we saw and then the corresponding with the kissing. Again, this is actually is funny because it was in Pretty Woman, right, where a lot of people heard this, but it was within the context of a prostitute where Julia Roberts says to Richard Gere that she will never kiss a client because it's far more intimate. The kissing is intimate. Right. And that was in a movie. And it's not like all these kids were watching Pretty Woman. Right? But just it just got to the point that, yes, kissing does now seem to be such a, you know, such a much more intimate act than oral sex. So that's one. The other thing is the other thing that that is has come about and this is really concerning is the change is because of the access to porn. And I'm not trying to be and I'm not using scare tactics. I am saying A, the research shows this and B, anecdotally, I've heard many people saying this that men more than ever before feel that it's okay, now we're talking heterosexual relations. So I want to be clear on that because, you know, we can talk about male, male, female, female at some point, but in heterosexual relations, men are far more likely to date to engage in behaviors that without consent, then, you know, than you would expect. And if I can just say a few, it's going to be a bit graphic, if that's okay. But I think people need to understand this. So, again, research has shown this reports that people who spoke with many people and again in my own practice have heard this. So one of them and you have to imagine this, they're saying on a first date, can you So I'm going to go down the list here. This is one. So this is a lot of people are okay with this because at a certain level, it's not that bad. But let's say spanking somebody, okay, If, you know, given given the you know, the pain with the pain and pleasure circuitry is closely in the brain and with the endorphins they get, you know, they get fired up and, you know, your system gets on fire like, you know, you're you're fueling up the limbic system. So a bit of pain can be very pleasurable. However, A if the person not expecting it right, this could be very you know, it can be disconcerting or can throw them off be if it's too hard. Now you've crossed the line and how does a person if this guy's rough or he's had other women who have never said anything you're really hard right and see just the fact that something is an act of intimacy just to hit somebody in a way that's not intended to hurt. Right. Or. Well, there has to be a level of trust, right? If they're doing that in the first interaction, that's that's obviously going to cause some problems, actually. And that's the part that, you know, we're going to cross the line so it's more over. Men are doing that. So that's one thing. Second one is and I'm trying to think of how to order this, okay, another one is choking. Now, again, same idea. Choking can be really amazing if it's done with with trust, it's got to be the trust and, of course, consent. Everything I'm saying, just please assume that I'm saying it has to be consensual and these are not consensual If they are nonstandard activities that the person didn't say, you know, okay, to previously and then the person just does it. So on a first date, imagine you're having sex with a guy and he starts choking you. A basic stranger is choking you. That's it. That's terrifying. So the choking, that was just the fact that they do this. Another one that they tried to have anal sex without asking. Okay. So the woman consented to penile vaginal. That was okay. But then suddenly you start trying to penetrate her anally. Okay. And I'm not talking gentle, probing, made with a finger to see or look like they would actually try to, you know, penetrate them with a penis and then the other one and I don't know, it's again, I know it's really graphic here, but I think this is so important. And this this I would say porn. 90 something percent of the people who do this, if not 100%, were influenced by porn. I don't I don't want to put you on the spot. I always ask you questions now, but I'm going to ask you, do you want to guess what this last part I'm going to say is and it's I'd say 99 to 100% due to porn Let me think about this, something overarching with unrealistic expectations of of, you know, what it's actually like. But I don't know. I'm okay. No, Well, it's I'm going to go with I'm going to tell you before I tell you actually, I would say one other thing, just one more. This I'm not sure how much research shows, but this people call it stealthing. So a guy takes off the condom in the middle of the act. Either he doesn't put it on because they're both drunk or high. You mentioned alcohol before. All these behaviors are exponentially more likely if you know there are drugs or alcohol involved. And in many cases there are. The research shows that with sexual assault as well, like we're talking, over 75% of cases will involve drugs or alcohol with certain types of sexual assaults, I should say. You know, we're talking over 75% or unwanted coerced, whatever. Studies show that. So, you know, imagine all this happening. So either the guy says he's going to put on a condom and he doesn't or he puts on the condom and takes it off in the middle. Right. And I mean, this is sexual assault. It is actual sexual assault. I've had a number of patients who've had this. I've had students who said this. So that's terrible, right? Risk of pregnancy, risk of, you know, of sexually transmitted infection. And they don't like sometimes the woman finds out afterward because you think, well, how could she not know? Well, in the midst of all this crazy especially there's drugs or alcohol is very easy, you know, or that kind of tears or or the guy forgets, quote unquote, there's it's so easy for these things to happen. And if a person doesn't feel that they have the right to have a voice, you're making it much more likely that it's going to happen. Right. So especially because if in the beginning, whether it's during the dating part, you know, the non-sexual part, whether it's at the beginning or right beforehand, if someone is showing that she's not she doesn't have a sense of confidence, the true confidence that she's not, you know, fully engaged and, you know, and trying to get her needs met and so on, then it's going to make the person feel more like that. They can take liberties with the person. Right. So speaking of taking liberties, the final act, which it should blow your mind and again, no pun intended, ejaculating on her face. Okay, I've lost count. I've literally lost count of the number of people who have told me that a guy, first date, whatever else like that, and just, you know, ejaculate in her face bad enough in the mouth or in the face. Okay. And that's 100% due to or almost 80% due to porn because that wasn't a thing that long ago. Porn started with ejaculating outside the body. Some historians say it's because of the HIV epidemic. They were, you know, at the time in the eighties. So they were trying to be safe. Sometimes they're saying, as a scientist, hey, don't worry, I'm not, you know, like whether it's for the actors themselves, the porn actors, or whether it was, you know, as part of the script or, you know, the the film script or the psychological script saying, hey, don't worry, you know, like, I'm not infecting you, there’s no risk kind of thing, which is silly because you can still, you know, infect anyway. But the point is it started from that on the back, on the belly, on the breasts, and then it started going into the face and that became it's so common. I want to interject the I'm sure you're sensing the look on my face, like what? What the f really honestly, I can't help but think that there’s some and I don't know, you know, the true facts surrounding this, but I can't help but think that there's some element of intentional disrespect that comes from that and that comes from excessive exposure to pornography. Yeah, that that's what's on my mind at the moment where all of this just seems to be some intentional degree of disrespect or assertion of aggression or control or something along those lines. Okay. And here's where some of the experts will roll their eyes when I say this. But they have to understand and I've said this, I've been interviewed, you know, about these kinds of matters, sexual matters. And it's funny because some of these people who've who've interviewed me, I've told them, I say, you're some experts you should talk to, and I'll give them a list of people. And I say this, these people are going to say this, I promise you, and these people are going to say that and they don't. There doesn't seem to be like a happy medium. And I've had reporters who've laughed and said, Oh, actually, I always spoke to them. They said exactly what you said, okay. Like it was very black and white. I will tell students, I tell patients I'm in the middle. I see both the black and the white and all the gray as well. So I want to be very clear here. I am not saying porn in of itself is bad. Porn can be, you know, very useful. Porn can be exciting. There are many good potential elements of porn. The problem is much of the porn is bad and and its effects on people can be terrible neurologically and psychologically. And a person has said earlier so so I'm going to say a few things about this. And so anyone who thinks they know where I'm going out, they'll listen to the whole story because it's not going to be one or the other side. It can be both. Okay. So when it comes to, let's say, ejaculating on the face, it's and I've said this to so many people, you can't not see it in virtually every case there are I'm going to tell you two exceptions it afterword but you can't not see it as as you say, it's aggression, it's marking territory, it's degrading, it's humiliating, It's putting its dominance. Right? I mean, that is a fact because the context in which people first see it, you know, the porn, in most cases, that's exactly what's happening. The woman's a passive recipient of this. And, you know, and whether it's a professional film or even worse, if it's an amateur film, like someone's personal recording, oftentimes you'll see a bunch of guys there and they're just just degrading and humiliating the young woman. Right. It's it's it's soul sucking, basically. And so that's what people that's the context in which people are seeing it. And I see most of the guys who are going to ejaculate on a woman's face. They're not misogynists, they're just monkey see monkey doing. That's what they say, Oh, this is the script. So they think this is normal. And not all females who do this are these, you know, these self-loathing, pathetic people without self agency. They're just emulating what they're seeing. But the fact is, what they're seeing their context, once again, is usually a person asserting their his dominance over the woman and her truly being humiliated. So even if you don't think that that's what you're doing psychologically, you're just repeating this context. So you are telling yourself on some level, yes, male, dominant, aggressive, mark territory, female or passive recipient being validated. Right. And I want to interject here again, just to tie this back to our main topic of parents. This is what you need to understand about the problem about pornography, is that monkey see monkey do kids, teens, adults, frankly, are not learning the proper actual real what could be a satisfying and fulfilling sexual experience. They don't learn what that actually looks like because they're seeing this and they're copying it. And I'm, you know, going to make a bold statement here that I think that in large part this comes from the fact that they're not having proper robust conversations with their parents and learning about this beforehand. And is that going to fix everything? Of course not. But I really, really want to emphasize that not talking about this stuff with your kids, that's where you're going to learn about it. Exactly. And again, if you don't feel comfortable, if your kid doesn't feel comfortable, get them to watch certain videos where there are young women teaching or whatever age, women, you know, teaching, actual empowerment, telling them that this stuff that we're seeing right now, they have to hear that. Because again, think about if you keep going the same behaviors over and over and over and the behaviors are designed to humiliate, to to subjugate you what you think it does to you unconsciously. So I just want to say there were so I was I may have mentioned it before. I was writing a book many, many years ago on sex, and I got kind of shelved. But when I when it came to ejaculating on the face, I got to tell you, I spoke to so many couples and I would hear every version of, you know, of of twisted Reality where people are saying, oh, it's not this, it's not that. And in most cases, except for two in every case, except for two couples, I couldn't believe what they were saying. I literally couldn't it they were lying to themselves. It was quite clear that might sound arrogant, but has a psychologist. I've worked with enough people where I can see where someone's trying to really rationalize and convince themselves. But there were two couples totally independent of each other. They don't know each other at all. Okay. And each couple said the exact same thing with the same type of tone and demeanor. Okay. Well, I said, you know what? Now you've made an argument for ejaculating on the face. Okay, Now, before I get to that bit of a teaser, let me say one of the things that people say, which is that like if a guy says, for example, well, when I go down on my girlfriend, if she squirts, I'm not thinking I'm being humiliated, whatever. I said, Oh, okay. And are you on your knees? Is she holding you by the hair? Is she forcing your face into you, into her, into her clitoris? And I didn't say vulva into her vulva and for, you know, then laughing while she's squirting in your face. No, that's right. It's not that. And it's the same with two men. If. If there are two men in a gay relationship. Okay? And one guy is always ejaculating on the other guy in that same manner, then it's degrading if you both do it. Okay? And there's an understanding. Everything's fine, then there isn't that imbalance. But these are factors that you have to be honest about. So the two couples, the two couples where I really believed it was actually a positive thing in the relationship was because each and I'm not kidding you, they both said almost word for word the same thing. Number one, the guy didn't ask to do it. Number two, the female did. Okay. Number three, when she did ask, the guy was like, no, I don't want to because that's degrading. Okay. Right. And then the fourth one, and this is the part and they both said it so, you know, almost word for word, each woman said to her partner, I don't do this either. Normally Now, whether they're telling the truth or not, I don't know. It seems sincere. Is that normally don't do it. But I do think it's degrading and so on. But because I actually trust and love you so much, I know that if you do it for me, this is taboo. It's dark, Whatever. Okay? Now it's it's no longer taboo because so common. But for them it's taboo. So engaging in taboo acts with respect and not, you know robbing anyone of dignity, that can be a bonding moment. So the way that they both said that it was couples sorry and both partners seemed totally in accord with each other, there wasn't one person looking weirdly like they both were like, Yeah, they were on board with that. They didn't do it all the time. They did a few times and again, it was a sign of my trust for you and my love, because I know I can do something I would never do with anybody else and not feel bad about it. To me, that was empowering. And how often does that happen? Well, I don't know how many couples I spoke to and how many people, but it was two out of whatever. So it's very rare. But I just want to you know, that's a non black and white version of that. And again, we're going to talk more about porn in other episodes, maybe a continuation of this. I just want people to know I know I talked about it before. We will continue to talk about it because it is so important that people have the right, you know, the perspective on this, not a black or white one. Again, I'll tell you right now, the experts, quote unquote, experts mostly I see black or white. Yeah. So this conversation could go on forever. But I think that this is a lot for parents to digest. So I think that this is a good point for us to talk about. You know, okay, this is a little bit scary, but what can parents actually do with this information? I would say, you know, first and foremost, parents getting comfortable with the discussion with the terminology, understanding again what the current terminology is and not going in with the expectation that your kid's going to look like they're listening. Frankly, you know, conveying the information consistently, regularly, having an open dialog, having an open discussion and ensuring as much as possible that sex is not a taboo topic in the household, that's going to be incredibly important. Another huge piece of this is understanding that teens have sex. It's normal, it's healthy, but it can also be very dangerous if they're not taught the proper tools and strategies to go about it in a safe and healthy way. Right. And so just to reiterate, you know, setting the stage, setting the environment where kids don't think it's taboo, like the sex talk or sex itself and, you know, and again, just going back and saying to the kid, you know, I'm comfortable talking about it, but if you don't really feel comfortable, please, here's a video I saw. I've watched a bunch of them. I really like this person. At least listen to them and. I hope that we can talk about it afterward. Or maybe I can ask some questions or you have questions or something keeping the dialog dialog open. But knowing most kids don't want to talk about sex with their parents, that is uncomfortable as we as we've said. And again, I can't keep saying it self agency, right? Advocating for yourself, feeling truly empowered, not the lie that's been sold about supposed empowerment. And again, you started with talking about the male female, the sex differences. We've talked about some of them and it's kind of been implicit in everything we're saying, but we're going to talk about more of them in, you know, in the next episodes about this talk, just because obviously there's so much. So since we are going to continue this conversation in the future. Listeners, we want to know what your questions are. What are some of the toughest things to talk about your teens with regarding sex? What are some questions that you don't really know the answer to? Send us a message. Engage with us on social media. We want to hear from you and help you through this really difficult conversation. until then, keep your eyes on the road and your hands upon the wheel.