I can make a pretty fair assumption being in the business of helping people and humans and knowing how humans operate, that in most cases, if somebody actually found themselves in this situation, most men would be kind and compassionate and helpful and be more than ready and willing to help. Are there bad people out there? Unfortunately, yes. Are most men bad? No. Hello and welcome to Awake at the Wheel. So in today's episode, we are going to be tackling a topic that one of our listeners suggested to us. So there is apparently a trend called Man versus Bear Online. I was not familiar with it, so had to do some digging to find out what this is all about. But I think essentially the gist of it is women are asked the question, would you rather be lost in the woods and stumble across a bear or a man? I didn't really understand the question until I started watching some content about it. So let's start out maybe by watching a video that gives what some of the take is out there on this, and then we'll jump in and discuss further. It's been a. Okay, so. okay. So this is idiotic. On the face of it, I'm just going to flat out say it. First of all, they're comparing apples to oranges. They're not the same thing at all. The number of deaths from bears versus the number of murders or assaults or whatever numbers she was quoting there. There are two completely different things. The the number of interactions that a female has with men from day to day is vastly different than the number of interactions that one would have with a bear other than at the zoo. I don't think I've ever seen a bear before in my life. Second issue Maybe I'll point out that perhaps the spirit of this is to bring awareness to violence against women. Maybe. Maybe that was the point that she was trying to make. But again, it's being approached by all the wrong methods. And also, like so many things, I feel that there conveniently forgetting the fact that men are also victims of sexual assault and sexual abuse, and that in fact goes more unreported than that of violence against women. So those are my preliminary thoughts. Okay. Now, the last part where you said that men are more also likely to be sexually assaulted. Right. They will say. And who is the main perpetrator? Men. Right. So there's a couple of things about that in certain context. Statistically, yes. In prisons. And that's where a large number or a large percentage unfortunately, comes from. But men can also be sexually assaulted by women in a variety of ways. Sorry. And go as she's talking about, being on a lived is the worst thing that you can do. So saying that, you know, that maybe sexual assault is worse and so on. Well, that's a debate in of itself. Okay. That's this is that's not nuance. That's trying to, let's say, to to twist, manipulate whatever to to advance one's agenda. Right. Because if we look at physical assaults against men. Right. By women. Well, that happens just no one likes to hear this. I think we've talked about this before. Technically speaking, 42, you know, sorry, 40 to 50% of domestic violence is perpetrated against a man by a woman. So it's basically half of the victims are men. And it's not because they're with other men. I mean, it can be, but it's also because they're assaulted by women. So, you know, and then they say, well, it's less violent. The point is, if someone is trying to take these kinds of, let's say, metaphors or questions or statistics to and they're coming at it from not good faith, then they will be very selective in what they present, how they present it and so on, versus having a more comprehensive approach saying it's not a zero sum game. We can talk about violence against women, we can talk about sexual assault, we can talk about believing survivors, etc., while also talking about other factors as well. They don't detract from those points. And to that point, I got to say, when I first heard about this whole, you know, man in bear in the woods, when I saw one video where someone was being asked that and they did the right thing, they ask the right questions instead of saying, well, they said, no, no, wait, how far is the bear? Is it an adult? Is it this Like they're asking all these questions and their partner was getting angry at them because they want to. Just a simple, simplistic answer where the other person I don't know. It's not that simple. So I'm just saying that. So with all the stuff I just said a minute ago, the point is, when you take these kinds of games or questions or metaphors and so on and again and you try to present in a certain way, it's clear there's only one point. And that is not to get you to reflect, not to get your thing is not to get you to contemplate. It's not to get you to arrive at solutions. If to hammer you over the head with the point that the person's trying to make. And that's manipulative and it's not helpful. Yeah. Yeah. And like you said, it's it's to advance a particular narrative. And I think that the narrative of this is I've used this term before toxic feminism, right where we're turning this into a discussion of how terrible men are, I think is, is what the spirit of it is. And that's horrible. Yes. And again, as you said, the comparison about the bears versus men that said the exact same thing, trotting out the stat. I mean, I would be embarrassed if I had, you know, no offense that a young woman, but I would be embarrassed if I had said that because it's just so ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, let's check out the next gem, and then we can discuss further. Well, the fact that I don't know if his numbers are accurate aside, I don't let you go first on this one already. Okay, So a few things. Yeah. Let's let's assume all the numbers are correct. Right. The I've got to say it. Okay. This is the kind of person. And but let's say I'm using him as a representation of a kind of person, not himself, that I don't know him. Okay. But the smugness, the attitude, this I know it all type of thing. You are not going and it's going to be funny because some people say, well, you're the same way. You want to call me that. All right. Go ahead. Okay. But, you know, he's throwing all these numbers and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. You know, and then the last part of it. Well, you know, she's telling you it's a bear. Okay, Well, okay, first of all, I'm going to say there are some people who do who do lie about bear attacks to say or lie about other things. But the point is, again, it's all this it's almost it's not is presenting numbers and all this stuff almost to obfuscate any either his point or like you know Right. Or to just make it impossible to even like I would say, put all that aside. Okay. Like it's going to say this, it's throwing all these things at you and you got to dodge them. You got to do lock them up and everything in order to try to have an honest discussion when the discussion shouldn't even be about not most of the stuff that he said. It was just ludicrous. And again, you just throw these numbers and I see way too many of these videos where I guess I don't even I tuned out when he was talking, so I don't remember if he was doing this and this this. I'm not sure if he's doing the whole pointing up these things because as soon as someone does that. Okay. Yeah, I know. It's a it's monkey. See monkey do. Someone started that. And so everybody's doing that, right? But when I see someone doing that, it almost makes me not even trust anything they say. Now. I can't. Take them seriously. Again because you're playing a role, basically. Okay? You're you're imitating. You're doing a poor imitation of someone else. And and but again, as a critical thinker, I'm honest about my dislike for that, that attitude, that demeanor and everything, the presentation. So I am containing that and not just dismissing it out of hand. I am saying that that just, let's say, exacerbates or worsens my my dislike for him. But I'm a critical thinker, so I'm going to really hear him out and try to see if he has a solid argument. But the average person, you know, they're just going to tune them out right away and go, yeah, like, don't like, don't talk down to me, okay? You and people are going to assume and I don't know anything about him, but they're going to make a lot of assumptions about his character, or his personal life and his motives and they could be fair. That could be unfair. I don't know. I won't make those assumptions. But again, if anyone who watched that, check your assumptions and see what kind of things you know, you think about him and why he's doing that, you know, And again, I'm aware of what I think. I won't say it, but again, I'm checking and say, okay, I'm not going to let that let me dismiss it out of hand. But the average person will. Okay. Because, again, they go with their emotion and at least I'm aware of my emotion, but I won't. And my impression is based on that. But I'm not gonna let that, you know, again, override my my thought. And my thought is everything you said, all of that stuff, even statistically and so on. You're still, as you said earlier, comparing apples to oranges. Okay. You want to make a point? Make a point without all that crap. If you want to talk about again, that there are far few, far too few people who are, you know, who who suffer consequences for their actions for it with great focus on that. But if you're going to say that, then also when you say, well, because a woman said it's a bear, they believe all women. Okay, well then have an honest discussion and say what about the number of women who have been shown to lie about attacks or to have a very skewed perspective on what we would consider to be, for example, of sexual assault? I think you and I may have talked about that before. I know I lecture about that. Okay. If it was completely consensual and later on, she regrets it. That's not assault. Okay. Things like that. So anyway, I mean, I'm just saying that is just so I think myopic. It's so manipulative. And I see no literally no benefit to these kinds of videos. Yeah. So thank you. Put into words that giant sigh that I expelled afterwards. I think that that aligns exactly with my thoughts, but I want to try to get down to the nuts and bolts of what the whole point of this argument is. So I think, one, it is you know, we should believe women when they see something happen. Okay, fine. But I think some of the other insinuations here are that and, you know, obviously we're not going to watch other videos or all the videos that talk about this. But I think some of the insinuation is also that men are useless, stupid, etc., etc., and they would much rather encounter a bear than a man. So I think then the crux of a lot of this is this narrative that's being pushed that men suck, or men are bad or you name it. And why that is, you know, we've spoken about in other episodes as well, but it's so hypocritical that and I hate to use, you know, Andrew Tate as an example here, but when he says certain things about women, everyone can say like, he's this, he's terrible, he's horrible, and so on and so forth. But then when women are turning around and making these over generalizations about men, it's okay. And we should believe everything that they're saying. It is completely hypocritical. And it's cheered on if some person on The View says something like that, YAY vs “Wait, that’s a misandrist comment” So yeah, and by the way, again, I if someone might say, why are you making such a big deal out of these clips that they're only they have one message that they're trying to convey or two or three, why are we adding all these other things? Well, because again, you and I as critical thinkers, we're not just looking at the message, we're looking at the intention. And the intention is divisiveness. The intention is shitting all over men. And when he says about like, you know, bear blah, blah, blah, bears, men murder, I'm no, you know, only a few bears. Well, okay, let's do some stature. I'll take that smug person, get his calculator and say how many bears have constructed roads, How many bears have died on the job while trying to create our sewer system? How many all these things. Because that's what you're saying about they say that men suck. Well, many men do suck, many women do suck. And society without men will collapse within days. Okay. Whether it's internally or because they're invaded by forces that do have men. Right. And say without women would collapse within a few days as well. So yeah, the point is it's it's that divisiveness that really worries me the most because people are seeing this from a younger and younger age. And that's why I'm glad that you brought Andrew take because he really does, you know, cause, you know, a lot of consternation and a lot of, you know, the bifurcated view on, you know, is that the devil or he's the messiah kind of thing, Right? And all of this, whether it's men versus women, whether it's, you know, alpha male for the better males or whatever the case may be, this is all designed to stoke this kind of dissension and this mistrust and this dislike among people. And it's getting worse and worse because since the Internet, right? No, never in the history of humanity have young people, whether teens or pre-teens or children, had access to these narratives from a younger and younger age. If I see this someone in their thirties seeing this who's who's only had exposure to good information is still susceptible, maybe taking the simplistic view, a child who does not have the critical thinking capacity, this becomes their reality. They think that's when. We started to interject here. But that leads exactly into what I was thinking, where I think that with a lot of these videos and responses, some women are I don't know, as I'm watching them, I don't know if they actually think that, you know, the bears the better choice or not, but whether they actually believe that or not, that's what they're saying and that's what kids are watching and seeing and taking in and then therefore believing and further propagating this narrative that men are terrible. It's it's so, so harmful. And, you know, maybe this started out as a harmful, like, cute little question that people are asking, but it's turning into something very harmful. It really is. And again, so if someone thinks that we're making too big of a deal out of it, because once again, it's not that video, it's not that question, it's the theme and that theme. And you and I did a podcast a while ago about the test. What was it. The orange, the orange test. Was it stealing the or stealing the strawberries, wasn't it? I feel great. Or the orange or whatever. These all these things. And again, once again, if a child is seeing this from a young age, A, they think that these kinds of questions are actually way maybe, you know, interesting and insightful or whatever, but be more importantly, again, the opposite sex or whoever else sucks, they're not to be trusted. They are toxic. They are dangerous. And you and I have talked about this with the I that if you're telling children and we said this before and it bears repeating, pardon the pun, but can you do that if I didn't even think. But if children from a young age are being taught that a certain group, whether it's a black child being taught that white people are bad or police are bad, or if girls are being taught that boys are bad from a young age, you are causing them to be hyper vigilant, you are causing them to constantly have their physiology education system, their nervous system being on guard around these people and then acting in a way that's going to most likely contribute to or cause, you know, negative interactions. And so then they're going to reaffirm this belief that, yeah, men do sucker, boys do suck, or white people do suck because they're acting a certain way rather than saying, Well, maybe they're acting that way because I'm acting this way. he's blaming the victim. I'm not blaming the victim. I'm saying, let's take a more comprehensive look at all of this and let's question why the heck people are doing this stuff. By the way, I am going to guess that that guy, that smug guy and that young woman and I'm just I'm trying not to use other adjectives for these people. Right. Are they doing this because they're really trying to promote, let's say, a better society or are they trying to get a lot of clicks and likes and whatever else like that, whether they're monetizing it or for their self-esteem? Right. Think about that as well. And what kind of a person bad enough to promulgate false or unhealthy or unhelpful narrative, but even worse, to do it for your own benefit. That's the height of cynicism. That's the definition of cynicism, basically. And shame on someone for you know, for doing that. And for thinking that they are the good guy in doing this. Yeah, yeah. And I'm going to pile on here, and I know I sound like the president of the He-Man Woman Haters Club here by saying this, but I'm very invested in this topic of of men because they're the most important people in my life are men, my husband and my son. And the majority of the clients that I work with, our men and good men. So hearing stuff like this makes me so incredibly angry because it's painting a picture of a whole segment of our population in such an incorrect light. And I don't have the numbers or statistics or my calculator up here to to, to support what I'm about to say here. But I can make a pretty fair assumption being in the business of helping people and humans and knowing how humans operate, that in most cases, if somebody actually found themselves in this situation, most men would be kind and compassionate and helpful and be more than ready and willing to help. Are there bad people out there? Unfortunately, yes. Are most men bad? No. That's right. And if I could, I can get you stats on on what I'm about to say. But the problem is I can get you an infinite number of stats from either the here to here to support what I want to say because know stats are only as good as the research from which they come. And that research is only as good as the people who conducted. And those people have their own agendas. So it's not necessarily that Nancy, they can trust it. But any stat where you either say I alluded to before, I'm going to say it again for any stat where you say men are a problem because, well, I can find one that says that women are a problem because then I can get to equal numbers. Okay. And for anything where you say that again or women, blah, blah, Yes. Okay. Someone who's a victim of this, I feel bad for them, but I guarantee you you're going to find a lot of men or boys who are the victim of the same type of crime or a different type of crime. And again, when you have so much divisiveness or divisiveness and when you have this, you know, the zero sum game, that. Right. Talk about one thing you're not or you're not allowed to talk about it because then it takes away from the other. Right. Again, all you're getting is a very narrow one sided view. And unfortunately, in school and university, in workplaces, that's all that you're seeing. You're getting that one narrow view. It's so misguided. And the reality is it was misguided, just false, because, again, a narrow view is not the complete picture. And so that becomes people's reality. And once again, whether it's animosity, mistrust, dislike, you're right, these are not healthy emotions when they are allowed to run wild. If we say yes, that a certain percentage of the population will conduct themselves badly. So if you're in this context, you must mind, you know, be careful. And if you're going to put yourself in this context, knowing these dangers, then you need to be able to find the way to navigate it the best. That's not misogynistic, that's not victim blaming. That's not saying that if a man rapes a woman, it's her fault. Anyone who interprets that from what I just said is either in incredibly unintelligent, ignorant, ideologically possessed, brainwashed, or has malevolent intentions because they are intentionally trying to distort what I'm saying. Nothing I'm saying is wrong in any way but these types of stupid videos and questions and so on. Right? They eschew any type of nuance, any type of reality, any type of accountability. And they're just trying to say, no, here this. And by the way, here's the thing. None of this stupid question right? Is there any solution? Is there any type of they know all they're doing is complaining about this thing? And once again, the fact is, yes, just so people are clear, I understand that far too many assaults, sexual other types of physical assaults, they go unreported. Yes, they do. And when they do go report it, many of them do not then end up in a conviction. Yes. Okay. And the stats that he provided, and that's all. If you're an honest player, you'll say, here's the stats, but here's why all these statistics are questionable. Anyone who ever talks about statistics without giving the caveat is is a bad actor or just completely ignorant, which is what I assume they are. Okay. So and one last thing I people hate when I say this, but I'm going to say it again if you want to do this whole and none of this is to take away from how horrible sexual assault or assault against females is, you talk about the important people in your life. Well, I have a wife and three daughters, so I want them to be raised in a safe environment. But I know it's not a safe environment. So I do my damnedest to empower them and to have help them have a realistic perspective, to have personal accountability, to make sure they don't put themselves in these situations, to learn how to navigate through difficult situations and so on, you know, to have self-pride and everything to do not put themselves anyway. So having said all that, what I was going to say was what people do not like to hear, okay? And this is a reality on any given day, any given night, if you ask who gets assaulted, more males or females, the reality is males, yeah, it's not even close, but it may not be sexual assault, but it's a physical assault. Okay. And they go, well, who's the perpetrator? Yes, more often than not, it will be a male if we're talking about physical assault. But are you talking about the perpetrators or are you talking about the people who unfortunately experience these terrible things? Right. And again, people with an agenda that only talk about one particular part of it. Let's look at all of it and let's try to find solutions. And complaining about it is not a solution. Yeah. So speaking of solutions, what can people do with all of this information and all of this content that's out there? You know, my my obvious response here is keep swiping. But the reality is some of this stuff is unavoidable. And, you know, most specific, like what I said before, kids are watching this, teens are watching this, and they're absorbing these really erroneous, harmful narratives. So as far as what can we do, we as adults should be very discerning in the media that we're consuming. And we've talked about this across so many different contexts. But, you know, when it comes to stuff like this, be very aware of the one sidedness of the content that you may be consuming and having that same discussion with your kids, with your teens, ensuring that, you know, they're being discerning about what they watch, what they believe, and how that then translates into the way that they think and view the world around them. Exactly. And I've already said everything I think I want to say. Just I wanted to reemphasize all we say about the parents. Right. If you have children, that's your role. Ask them about it. Now, with and ask the important questions. And you have to teach them critical thinking right from the youngest age because you can't stop them from being exposed to it. But you can at least create some filters to which they can observe this and maybe they roll their eyes or whatever else, or if they do it, they do that with tongue planted in cheek where they, you know, they'll answer the question or whatever. But they recognize it's a silly question. But here's the one thing, though, just to be realistic, if any, a teen saw this and they tried to say anything that you and I have said, I think you and I both know that in many cases they're going to be attacked. They're going to be called, you know, a rape apologist, a misogynist and all this other stuff. And I do see these videos, whether it's about this stupid question or other stuff where there is the type of person we've had some of them on our on our podcast, who has the strength, the courage, the wherewithal to be able to go, whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay. But that's the exception. Yeah. The average person is not able to do that. So I don't expect I mean, I tell this to my daughters, I always tell them you're like, you know, learn about all this stuff. And I say, but be mindful, you know, know your audience, okay? You know, I don't want my daughters to be, you know, either physically beaten up or I don't want them to be excluded, but I want them to at least understand it. So when parents are working with their kids, don't expect your kid to be the one to go stand up and say, well, let's look at the stats, because they will be excluded. And you know, social animals exclusion is one of the worst things that you can do to somebody. Yeah, Yeah. So to our listeners, what do you think about our thoughts on Man versus Bear? Are we completely missing the mark? Let us know in the comments. All right. And on that note, until next time, keep your eyes on the road and your paws upon the wheel.