People can't logically say, well, the evidence proved me wrong. Instead, they say they discount the evidence, they distorted the distorted reality. And they double down. And they. Double down. Yes. Because they don't want to see themselves as bad or foolish. So they must believe that they are the good ones, they are the smart ones and everybody else, or 50 something percent of the population must be the bad and the dumb ones. Hello and welcome to you. Awake at the Wheel. In today's episode, we're going to be discussing the U.S. election. So I'm going to try my best to keep my political opinions to myself, because I think that this outcome says more about society, about people. And it's been coming up quite often in the days leading up to in the days following the election in therapy sessions. So I think that there's a lot to talk about that goes beyond my own personal beliefs on the matter. I think that, you know, whichever political affiliation we have, the outcome tells us that more than likely the U.S. is ready for a change. And they felt that Trump would be the representative to have that change begin and take place. As you can tell, I'm choosing my words carefully here, but I think that there's a lot to talk about, a lot to unpack here. But what's interesting, as I mentioned, is people from all ages, all demographics that I work with, have been coming forward in their therapy sessions with concerns, some of these concerns surrounding, you know, what the future is going to look like for us here in Canada. Young people who brought forth concerns about, you know, what is this going to look like when I get older and become an adult? Like, what rights are we going to have here and what rights are going to be taken away from us people from older generations reflecting back on the way things were versus how they are now. But whichever way we look at it, like I said, I think that people are ready for a change. So, Erin, what are some things that you've maybe noticed the days leading up to or following as far as concerns from clients? Well, this is fascinating because eight years ago, first of all, nobody had any fears or concerns before the election because they all assumed Trump was thrown out of the water when it happened. Every almost, you know, the vast majority of my patients were anxious. They were concerned. They didn't know what was going to happen. They were terrified. And even though they were Canadian, I have some patients who are American or have American families, and they were more concerned. But everyone thought this was the end of the world. And I really had to talk many people down from the ledge. They truly were thinking the apocalypse is coming. Yeah, number one, this time around, believe it or not. And it's just that maybe the makeup of my patients, but most of them were actually relieved they were happy now. And I have very few people and they also pretty many of them say the same thing, not all, but many. And I'm talking males and females, young and old, gay, straight, you know. So most of them, if not almost all of them, say, I'm not a fan of Trump's at all, okay? Like, I wish there was somebody better. Okay. But they said seeing how, let's say left Far-Left radical left the country had gone and you know and Canada as well seeing what these reckless policies have done, seeing as you and I say often good intentions executed poorly, leading to terrible outcomes. They said it was time for a change. So they were relieved and some of them said, and I resonated with this, they said, Now I kind of understand Trump derangement syndrome in the sense that whereas, you know, people on the left are afraid that Trump brings with him the apocalypse, right? He's a fascist, he's Hitler, etc., that many people were saying that if Kamala had won, they were terrified of what was going to happen to the country and to the world. And, you know, you know, if America catches a cold, Canada sneezes. So. Right. So. So I'm seeing a very different sentiment. Having said that, I've had a few usually younger, and I have to say at least one right now, a black patient who was terrified. And she's got American family and she's American herself. And, you know, and she's she's young. And and I fully understand, you know, what she's telling me, though. Hate crimes. ROSE from 2016 to what every know she was. Give me some stats, which I verified that there were you know, there were some issues. Obviously, it wasn't a utopia at all. The first four years. And I was trying to, you know, help her kind of deal with with this. And I'm trying to be empathetic as well because I'm not a young black American woman. So you know, I'm trying to see it from her perspective. But what I kept trying to say to her was that, again, we've been through this, you know, four years ago, sorry, for four years, eight years ago. And I said that back then, we didn't know what was going to happen. And I was telling her, you know, Trump has a team. It's not just him. Yeah, you know, he's got some good advisors. Unlike last time I saw him saying all that. But I really do see the anxiety. And again, her lived experience is very different from mine. So I'm not trying to tell her that your concerns are unwarranted. I'm just trying to help her really be able to contain the fears and anxieties so that it doesn't overwhelm her and so she can continue on her path. And again, I've heard that the reason I'm saying her is, like I said, eight years ago, it was almost everybody. I had the same discussion, you know, again, without knowing what was going to happen, but trying to say, look, let's contain it. And I said to them, I've heard so many people who are who have knowledge of how things operate. Right. And we've heard them talk. And I've you know, I've read what they've said. And, you know, if we all knew what was, you know, how the sausage was made, we would none of us would sleep at night. Okay. But I've told people it's been happening for so many years. It's happened behind the scenes and thank goodness we're still around. So anyway, that's just a quick thing. But the balance is so different. How many? Most of my patients are relieved. And it's so interesting because as you're saying that I kind of arrived at the thought here that again, especially leading up to the election, the concerns from many of my clients, I think whichever side they were on was a fear of extremism. And what I mean by that is, you know, the far left, good intentions executed very poorly, has resulted in ideologically possessed policies. And then I think on the right, this like desire for extreme overcorrection of these policies has resulted in extremism and some radical policies on on their end of things. So I can see where the concern arises, and that's extremism when it comes to anything I think is obviously very concerning. But similarly, you know, when clients after the fact were coming into their sessions and quite anxious and quite worried, there were some themes throughout their thought processes in terms of catastrophic thinking and black and white thinking. So really what I did with those clients is focus on what the source of some of those fears were. And oftentimes it didn't really have to do with the parties themselves or the candidates themselves. It had to do with, you know, them feeling vulnerable, disenfranchized, or whatever the case may be, and worrying about how that may impact that in the future. Right. And I think the irony is, you know, if they are thinking about like, you know, my future or their future in four years of, you know, certain policies, I'll find economic, you know, on a levels basically, you know, I saw the numbers. I mean, they were not good. So, you know, so I would hope for a change. Having said, I'm not an economist, so, you know, I don't pretend to know more than I you know, that I know. And, you know, I try not to be biased. My sources, I try to look at all sides, you know, as much as I can. But, you know, again, I understand people who have those concerns. And in the eight years ago and I'm saying it today and I see this all the time and we've talked about this before, which is I say, look, global politics, those are out of your hand in their hands. And if you focus exclusively on that, you're going to feel disempowered. Disenfranchized very anxious. So I say focus on what you can control, right? So we know prices are out of control in Canada, in the States. So I say, you know, like then you work on, you know, you may not be able to get a higher salary, but then you think, okay, what kind of food am I eating? Maybe I'll eat less, you know, how can I cut back? And so on. Right? So it's it's what can you do? It's it's self advocacy. Of course we you know, I always, you know, encourage. So that's what I've been trying to do as well get away from the global the stuff out of your hands and focus more on what can I control in my little tiny slice of the universe. Yeah and I don't know if personally at this time around, I'm just not paying as much attention to the media or I'm not as focused on it. But tell me if you've seen otherwise. But I have not seen quite the the anger and the the divisiveness that arose last time with the outcome with Trump winning as this time. I feel like people in general, at least what I'm seeing in the media, are more settled. Are you seeing that too? Yeah. Other sees the word more resigned care. And just because I'm anal about language, you know, I because I do acceptance therapy is one of my eight orientations. You know, I always tell patients when someone says, I've accepted this, I say, No, you haven't. Acceptance is strength. Okay? You've resigned yourself to this fate and now you just kind of, you know, going into oblivion, whereas accept, you know, true acceptance is different. So this I don't see acceptance, I see resignation. I don't see settled. I do see. But you're absolutely right. I do not see yet, you know, the same type of reaction that we were getting before. So, you know, I'm thinking, okay, I think two things. One, what is January 26? January six? But there is a 20th. There's six something in the 20th. I think there's also 20th like the sixth and the 20th. I'm not sure why, but so I'm I'm thinking because I think six is when it's ratified and the 20th is when. When they're actually in. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I'm thinking are they planning for something really big, their number one. And number two, here's where my tin foil hat comes on, seeing all of the shenanigans of, you know, the people behind the scenes, seeing what they've tried to do, seeing what they have done. I'm wondering, you know, are they quite Because right now they're looking at, okay, are there ways for us to somehow disrupt the process? Are we going to try to find something that will allow us to not, you know, ratify that or, you know, to to allow Trump to become president? That's right. Tinfoil hat comes on. So I'm hoping that's not the case. And I hope not. But I think the the word quiet, I think that illustrates what I was trying to get at. And I think there's a a low level disappointment among some groups. So I follow some female leadership groups and just, you know, read what some of the thoughts are surrounding that. And it's it's sad. And admittedly, some of this crossed my mind, too. People can say, you know, whatever they want about Kamala Harris and her campaign and so on and so forth. But I think there are some facts of the situation that she is a very accomplished professional in the work that she did. Again, people keep all. But I mean, it's not easy to become, you know, at the level that she did in her her legal career, at least let's say. So I think there is some disappointment there as far as, you know, people seeing this very hardworking, accomplished woman work hard to try to accomplish the highest office in the U.S. And the comparison that I made, I'm not saying that these are my words, but a bumbling moron comes along and says whatever he wants and isn't poised and isn't professional, and he wins anyway. So I think that there is some perception, at least among some women, that you can be the hardest working woman in the room. But it doesn't matter. Right. And, you know, that's, you know, with my three daughters, they will never hear that message because I don't want them to hear that disempowering. I want them to say, you know, if you're if you're the hardest working, you're the best, you are going to get that position. And so, I mean, they know my views. I don't see your I'm sorry, I don't see her as the hardest working best and tells in everything. And I've you know, I've just dug deep into her career and the claims and and I've just seen that's not someone that I would that I would want to be the first female president of the United States. I would be ashamed if I were a woman. And I happen to be the case. So, number one, my fingers are crossed. I'm going to, you know, show my political bias. I am hoping that that honor goes to Tulsi Gabbard. Quite frankly, I think she would make an excellent, you know, first female president or just a president. I think she would have been amazing. And so anyway, so my fingers are crossed that four years from now that she's going to run and that she will have that, you know, that honor. So I have I'm sorry, but I've got nothing good to say about. I saw the look on your face. I said I said, I know. I'm sorry. I just like I. Said, I admittedly haven't done as much reading or digging. Right. I I'm taking it at face value. And, you know, there's problems with that, of course, But everyone's got some skeletons, clearly. Yeah, Well, yeah. So I mean I won't I, it's going to go down a rabbit hole by tonight because we're going to talk more about, you know, the broader, you know, issues. So yeah, so I am very hopeful Now I've seen some of the things that Trump has said. And by the way, years ago I was warning my colleagues, colleagues, students, anybody I could speak to, where I was saying, when you go so far in one direction, you know, be ready for the backlash. And that's what I'm afraid of. And so, you know, I don't want to see, you know, let's say, gender related policies that are way too far off, that are punitive. I want to see children protected. I want to see women protected. I want to see, you know, sanity and reality protected. But that shouldn't come at a horrible cost to the people who, you know, who have gender related issues. I don't want to see that at all. And that's why I'm worried about that pendulum swing and that's what we're seeing. So, yeah, so but that's that's humanity. And the fact that the people in these positions of power, whether it's politics, academia, science, research, medicine, whatever it was, the fact that they were so arrogant that they didn't think that backlash was going to come because they believed we're going to keep going on this trajectory. Some of it was arrogance. Some of it was because they thought this was utopia that they're creating. So they couldn't fathom that people would say, Whoa, wait, you know, there is a limit to, you know, to what we should be doing. So I just I do see it as arrogance and just watching again, you know, the people, whoever it is. And I've seen so much of this where they just can't imagine. And instead of saying maybe it's because many people woke up to what Wokeness was doing and they realized that, again, good intentions executed poorly, they couldn't believe that that's what caused people to vote a certain way. Instead, you hear all over all the pundits, so many of them are saying, wow, so racism, sexism, misogyny, you know, homophobia, transform it. Take your pick. That that has to be the reason they couldn't imagine anything else. And yet we are seeing a few people. I am hopeful that I am seeing a few pundits and politicians, pollsters I'm not sure about, but pundits for sure, who are going on, who are from the left, who are saying, let's look at why this happened. Let's reflect on our values, our approaches. Yeah, and that makes me hopeful that if people can reflect on this, learn from this. And that's what it comes down to, I think, is that, you know, the the candidate I don't think matters as much because like you said and I've said to many clients too, that there isn't one person at the top single handedly making every single decision. Right. It's a team of people. It's an evaluation of the needs of the country and so on and so forth. Which again, is why I think Trump got elected, is because those values are shifting in another direction and people really desire change. But I fear that this is only going to create further division. So, for example, you and I clearly disagreed on the qualifications of Ms.. Harris, but we can still have a conversation and smile and laugh about it and it's fine. We're we're good. But I don't think that that's going to be the case. Overarching me. And by and large, I think that it's been, you know, good wisdom to not discuss politics and religion with certain people and in certain settings. And I think that that is true. But it's you I'm talking to both sides both here. It's really sad as well, because we should be able to we should be able to disagree. We should be able to converse and and explore these things. But I only think it's going to get worse. And this is illustrated by, you know, speaking of experts and pundits and so on. Let's watch this video of this psychiatrist who's giving advice on how to handle these very disagreements that you know, someone voted that way. Do you recommend, just from a psychological standpoint, being around them? We've got the holidays coming up. So I love that you asked this question because, you know, there is a push, I think, just a societal norm, that if somebody is your family, that they are entitled to your time. And I think the answer is absolutely not. So if you are going into a situation where you have family members, where you have close friends who, you know, have voted in ways that are against you, like what you said against your livelihood, and it's completely fine to not be around those people and to tell them why. like that is absolute garbage. And coming at it from, you know, quote, the psychological perspective, like that was a total straw man argument, too, By the way, because she's saying just because someone is your family doesn't mean that they're entitled to your time. Absolutely. That's true. But that has nothing necessarily to do with your political views and affiliations. We should be able to have a conversation. And for her to encourage people to cut people out is crazy. We've spoken about this in other episodes that that really should be the last resort. Is cutting people out of your family and cutting people out of your life. But there can be mature boundaries that can be set around those conversations and, you know, choosing to isolate oneself from the family, that's not a healthy solution at all. And in fact, I think it's only going to breed further extremism because you're then going to look for people who agree with everything that you're saying, regardless of what side you're on. Right. Exactly. So there's two things there. First, we know for a fact in North America or in Canada and America, there is an epidemic of loneliness, of feeling isolated, you know, of not having the supports. So why would you cut out the people who, you know, comprise, in theory, the most important support that you can have? That is just so it's just so wrong. Number one. Right. And again, and just to be clear, you and I, I've talked about this. If you have toxic family members, if you have harmful family members, then you're not obliged to subject yourself to that. But that's different. Just because they voted a certain way does not de facto make them that way. But this psychiatrist is claiming so, number one. And number two, and you talk about the extremism. Yes, we know that that when you have people with, you know, mild the not even extreme policy off center beliefs, if you have more and more of them together, we know that they push themselves further to the extremes. That's a scientific phenomena that we should study in social psychology. I'm blanking on the name, but I know that that's you know, I talked about that. So we know that that does happen. So, yes. And so it's better to have people who have different views then you keep you grounded, keep you centered, keep you take you out of your echo chamber, help you see a reality beyond the false reality, the falsehoods, the lies, the manipulation, the deception that has been tearing our countries apart for the last number of years. I'm just I am aghast. I'm actually I'm not because I'm not surprised anymore at what we're seeing. But so-called experts, professionals, you know, saying such things. It's just I mean, what was she thinking? Y'know, she was. So counter to our profession, right? That's not our job to tell people to do that first and foremost. And that's such a biased view. Yeah, it is. And it's destructive. Okay. And it also it's basically now not technically I'm being I'm being colloquial in my words here, but that's breeding Nazis ism because that saying if people disagree with me, my perspective trumps there's no pun intended. Okay, I am correct and I have the right to to tell them, you know, this is how it's going to be versus what you and I've talked about so many times on podcast and elsewhere about boundary setting. Right. So if someone voted differently from how you know, how you would, you know, you wanted, you can tell them how you feel about it without being judgmental. You can say, you know what? If, for example, if you if you're trans and you're saying, you know, I am concerned about what's going to happen and everything like that, and can you understand why I would be opposed to your, you know, your choice? That's far better than saying you're a fascist, you're a Nazi, blah, blah, blah, which is what's being encouraged here. Right. And again, and it's the most important thing is, is cutting those people off is just so wrong and wrongheaded. And it's almost paradoxical because I think that this, you know, this strong political affiliation that people have is in large part bred out of a desire for belongingness. But in doing so, they're then cutting people out from the, I think, ultimate area of belongingness, which is your family. It's it's such a strange way to look at it. Yes. And but this is we've you and I have talked about this even recently, about the, you know, the politicization of you know, of, let's say, our country, America, as well. The and that's just leading to divisiveness. And once again, you actually know, I want to say this, I'm going to be honest, I'm biased here. But, you know, the the divisiveness that we're see that I'm seeing and I can be biased is I see people, unless they're on the far right, I see people on the right. And center being very accommodating, being very welcome, being open and not shunning people who don't share their ideology. Yet I'm seeing so many people on the left not far left. Just the left. Okay. What we used to call a liberal. Now they're very illiberal and I'm stereotype is not everybody. I still have many left friends who haven't abandoned me because I'm this horrible monster. Right. But, you know, I don't see that same, you know, that same willingness to hear this other viewpoint, to see these people who have different viewpoints as just humans versus, again, terrible people who are stealing my rights and who could ever vote for a monster like that. And again, once again, instead of being rational, logical, and saying if it was only 2% of the population, 5%, maybe 10% of the population who voted for him, then I could see that as these are extreme right wing, uneducated, you know, blah, blah, blah people, you know, homophobic, transphobic, sexist, racist, bigoted, etc., people. Right. I could see that. But when you have over 50% of the of the voting population. Right. A majority not just in the in the electorate. sorry. In the Electoral College, but the popular vote, when you see over half, what kind of mental gymnastics do you have to do. Right. To believe that they must all have these traits and agendas that you attribute to that smaller percentage? It was easier to say one as a small group, but when it's over half, what are you saying to yourself and the people who instead of stepping back and, okay, well, maybe there's something wrong with the way I'm seeing things, maybe the media, which has been proven time and time again, have been lying to me. Maybe the fact that a lot of shenanigans have been going on behind the scenes in all levels of the department, in the government, the ones who are actually running the country, not the president, although the president is involved as well. But you know that maybe I need a shift in perspective. We're not seeing that because that's how cognitive dissonance reduction works. People can't logically say, well, the evidence proved me wrong. Instead, they say they discount the evidence, they distorted the distorted reality. And they double down. And they. Double down. Yes. Because they don't want to see themselves as bad or foolish. So they must believe that they are the good ones, they are the smart ones and everybody else, or 50 something percent of the population must be the bad and the dumb ones. Yeah, and I'm. I know I said I wasn't going to share my political affiliation, but for the sake of this statement, I will. So I think and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that I present myself as pretty centrist. But if I were to pick one side or the other, I think I lean a little bit more right because of my morals and values and faith background. So fine. But that said, I can sit back and look at both sides and understand where each are coming from. And maybe this is ignorance or laziness or I'm not sure, but I, I just don't get as invested in this stuff as other people do. And I'm perplexed as to, you know, outside of identity. What is it about this topic of politics that people are like literally willing to kill for it? Like, I don't get it. Well, I'll say for a large percentage of people, not everybody, but a large percentage like so for me, I'm keeping myself informed. Right. But it's not bothering me. And then again, like I said, I could understand what people are saying. They were saying like, my gosh, now understand Trump derangement syndrome because they were terrified of four more years have come up. I was very worried. I truly was. But I contained it and I was prepared that if she won. Okay. All right. Let's see what's going to happen. And, you know, and again, I was prepared to do everything I told my patients. Okay. So my interest, it's I try to keep myself informed. I want to be a critical thinker. I want to be a hypocrite. So so I the reason that I don't think it exercised you so much is that and here's what people are not going to like it again, I think everybody but I think a large percentage of people who do get so worked up over this is that and again, it's going to sound very dismissive. And I think everybody I want to be very clear on this. If this is one if this is you, I'm not saying this is necessarily your motives, but it is for many people, it's they don't have anything else that is fulfilling for them. They don't write. It just feels like that. They just what am I doing on this planet? What am I doing here? And so on. So some of them just buy into the ideology, the oppressor oppressed ideology that is now, you know, just permeated society. And so that, you know, if I'm not doing well, that's because I belong to some oppressed, you know, category. Right. Because, you know, the people who do well and this is this is not hyperbole. And someone says, you're just oversimplifying it. No, this is the actual the principles that are underlying so much of what we're seeing, whether it's wokeism, whether it's like I'm not going to label all the different movements or virtually all the major movements today go under the principle of if you're successful, you're the oppressor. If you're not successful, you're the oppressed, right? So so if you feel that way, you feel so disempowered, so disenfranchized. But it's a human condition to want to aspire to something greater than ourselves. So they, you know, they, they get worked up because they want to be part of something great, whether it's the, you know, the the right side or the left. And I think that's why people so many people get so worked up. And if you have and by the way, we know this because people who live in in places where survival is on the menu every day. Right. Just trying to feed yourself is on the menu every day. They don't care about this stuff, Right? They care about survival. So, you know, this is a luxury belief for many people. Just because we happen to live in such you know, we're so lucky, relatively speaking. We live in some of the greatest places in the world. Right. You know, as bad as it is here, I'm sorry. As bad as it could be here, it's so much a lot worse elsewhere. Yeah, exactly. So I think that's why people are just they just need to feel that they're there. They're part of something that they're doing, something that they have some meaning in their existence. Yeah, no, I agree with that. And I think yeah, certainly doesn't apply to everybody. But I think at least with the clients that I've worked with, what it has typically boil down to is them not feeling in control of certain aspects of their life and feeling like now somebody else is going to be making those decisions for them. So I think that does tie right in to what you said. Yeah. And, and again, so and by the way, we'll say no, but I am really hoping that the people who are, you know, who on the winning side that they be gracious in victory and that they do what I have seen done, which is once again be accommodating and say, hey, look, here's where, you know, the olive branch is here. Even if I'm in the victor's position, I'm extending this olive branch because being divisive has not helped anybody. It's only hurt us. And on every level you can imagine, like internally and interpersonally and socially, we know it's just destroying the fabric of what we used to know as Canada and the United States. So I'm really hoping that people will be just gracious. Don't gloat, all right? Don't don't punish. Don't say I told you so. Just say, hey, I'm still here. And I'm optimistic and hopeful that people will just kind of drop this divisiveness. But I'm also pessimistic that it's probably going to get worse. Social media is not doing any favors, I don't think. And, you know, just enhancing that echo chamber even further. So I'm not really making much of a point here. But while I am optimistic, I do fear that it's only going to get worse. I really hope it doesn't. You know, I don't I would say that's that's maybe faith. Maybe I have faith in that. You know, I hope it's not blind faith. But I will say if if anyone watching this wants to contribute to it getting better, just do what we've talked about all the time, which is just at least you don't have to agree with you don't have to like, but understand the other person's perspective or the other the other side's perspective. Just understand it. And again, you don't have to join it because I disagree with so much of what I'm seeing on the left, Right, even though I come from the left, right, I am historically and everything my family, we are left. We really are. But by usury that we used to be sorry, what we call liberal. When liberal is liberal, Yes, we are classically liberal. So. Yeah, right. So I disagree with what I've seen, but I understand it and that's why I can have actual true compassion rather than false compassion. And I hope more people will do that. And I'll tell you right now, I mean, again, it's sadly cognitive dissonance reduction basically prevents us from happening for most people. But more and more people, there are some people either a things get so extreme, which is what happened with so many people that they're able to go, Whoa, I just didn't see this coming or I didn't know it was happening. I heard sort of it. But then you see with their own eyes, it happened to someone you know directly that they know or to themselves. Right? So that's one way. Or there going to see there's another way. yes. That with the opening up your eyes. Okay. If you tell everyone if you could find just one person, just one where you're not trying to ram something down their throat, but try to show them a couple of examples, just a few examples of where they were lied to. For example, I can't believe I can believe this because I think Obama has proven himself to be someone of questionable character. But last week alone, four years after the fact, or sorry, seven years myself, or seven years after the fact, seven years and like three months after the fact, he still spread that lie that Trump said there were fine people on both sides and meant it to refer to the, you know, the Nazis or the white supremacist seven years, even when Snopes has had to debunk that statement, Right. He still said that, you know, Biden was saying that up until you know, until his brain kind of stopped functioning. But Biden said that as well, you know, even up until a few months ago. So for Obama to say that. So if you can show people and by the way, I have tried, I have. And some people, they say, my goodness, I had no idea. I said, yeah, you don't like Trump. I still don't like Trump. I do not like that person as a human being, but I don't like also being lied to. Right? And so that was my awakening moment. I can't remember if it was just so you know, for me, because just, you know, when Trump and Hillary Clinton, you know, were first going at it, just because I had such a distaste for Trump, I would rather I wanted Clinton to win. Okay. But then I and my distaste for Trump came not just, well, it's a long time ago. I never liked him just because he's such a braggart and, you know, etc., sort of is a not not diagnosing. But everybody would agree, I think that he's a narcissist. Again, I'm not diagnosing that, to be clear. But I didn't like all of that. Right. And then so I saw him acting certain ways and being buffoonish and everything and having the media ramp it up. But that one time where I saw to me, when I saw him dumping a bunch of food into a goldfish pond and, you know, having a Japanese wife, having lived in Japan, you know, I thought that that how was I were disrespectful. Here is with the prime minister and there's a beautiful koi in this beautiful place and everything just dumps this box. Right. And the media showed that. And then I say, wait a second, He was just following the prime minister of Japan who did the same thing moments before. That was my I think that was my moment that might have been. Just for context matters. RE Context matters, right? And I was just, you know, I love my bias, you know, to to blame me to other possible, you know, explanations. And I thought it was so prevalent. It was, you know, like everyone was saying the same thing. Every media source, all the people around him, everyone, you know, And I'd heard all the stories about his business practices and how he had, you know, ripped off so many people as a business man, which I'm sure is still true. Okay, just cause I've heard so many of these, But again, so I just allowed myself to kind of be caught up in that. And then when I had that moment and again, it might have been that one, there might be something before, I can't quite remember. But it was, you know, it may have it might have been shortly before that, I'm not quite sure, but again, it was just seeing more and more. And then I just my perspective changed. I started looking and looking at looking more for just confirming evidence, which I used to do anyway. But I thought, you know, you can always improve. Yeah, I thought I was doing it 100%. Maybe it was only 70% that I was doing that, you know, and, and so that's why I'm saying if people can just find one or two examples where they say, Wow, I really thought this was true, whether it's about Trump or anything else. Okay. Same was about to say transpeople. If people think, well, they're all just these men parading as women because they're perverts, blah, blah. Listen to some stories of people who felt a certain way all the time, you know, and everything like that here that it hasn't compassion. I have an open mind. I go, wait, maybe they're not all these, you know, these people that I thought that they were maybe there are actually young people with gender dysphoria or, you know, an incongruence and so on. So, you know, and you can still hold your beliefs and you can still say, yes, you know, surgeries for children are wrong and hormone treatments are wrong, etc.. He still hold that. But you can still say, but these are real people, right? They're not. They shouldn't be pawns. And let's have some compassion for these real people who are suffering. So I'm just throwing a few different things out there. But that's how you make change a little bit at a time. And most importantly, it's just like, well, usually it's it's like having a real connection with a real person. Again, seeing real examples or hearing of real examples of people who are hurt by certain policies, whether their vote policies or their antiwar policies. That's what I'm hoping that, you know, that if you if everyone knows one person or, you know, or two people, that they can try to do that with. You might have 20 people in your circle. Maybe one or two will be open to that. So don't get bludgeoned over there. Don't be, you know, arrogant while you're doing it, just come with an olive branch and again, from whatever side you're on and just try to have a, you know, a good engagement, maybe slightly you can make some change. And interestingly, so I think these are, you know, really good kind of external things that people can explore and and reflect on. And it aligns very well with the recommendations that I've been making to clients about internally what they can do. Interestingly, I've been suggesting that people lean into the discomfort. So two ways. One being have a conversation with somebody who disagrees with you, but listen to understand, not to argue, not to prove your point and not to change your mind necessarily either. If you do change your mind, that's great. But listen to understand. Listen to see where other people are coming from and recognizing that that is going to be uncomfortable. But that's how we grow and that's how we think critically is by getting as much information on a topic as we can. And then secondly, focusing on, you know, what is it about the other side that is making me uncomfortable? Where are the biases that could be contributing to this discomfort? And is that something that I can work on growing from? So really, rather than running away from the discomfort I think it's really important to examine that discomfort. I think that's excellent for sure. Right. And and entering this when people laugh and I say this, but from a position of humility, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think that's so important. I don't know. I don't have all the answers. I don't know whether it's again is facts or whether it's someone's experiences and Yeah. And I think the leaning into I think it's really, really important not running away from it and because it's very easy to run away you just go back to your echo chamber and you see all those other people are lunatics or monsters are right, it's not helpful. And we grow whether it's as an individual or as a society. So yes, I agree 100%. Yes. So to our listeners, I'm curious whether you're Canadian or American or from anywhere else in the world, I know that this is a topic of conversation that's popping up all over the place. So what have your experiences been? Are you able to have discussions or is it being shut down? Let us know in the comments. Right. And I would say that with, you know, the holiday season season approaching. Right, that this is something that I think is it behooves everybody to do what you just said, do reflect on what's going on inside of themselves so that they don't feel that, you know, this holiday season is going to be where can I visit You straightened off all these people, especially one's family, I hope. You know and by the way, if it if it is simple, as simple as saying, you know what, we're here for a good time where you're for family. Let's leave politics out of the mix, then all the power to you, if that's what it takes. Let's not make this a you know, it's just stressful enough. The holidays are stressful enough. Let's not add to the stress. Absolutely. So on that note, until next time, keep your eyes on the road and your hands upon the wheel.