I never said to myself, I'm not represented by, you know, anybody that looks like me or has my religion. I don't think I had any Jewish professors at that time. I never presumed that I thought you had to have some very special qualifications to become a journalist for many, many years. the young people today that go to journalism school, they start out with a certainty, a certainty that there is a right way of looking at the world and a wrong way. And they are they're passionate about that certainty. They but that's how ideologies are. The Holocaust is now in certain communities. It is not taught. And whether it is appropriate even to teach it to anybody anymore, We're we're in a very strange era, a very bad one. Hello and welcome to Awake at the Wheel. So in today's episode, we are going to be revisiting a number of topics surrounding shifts in ideology, culture, as well as activism. And to help us explore this topic further. We're joined by Barbara Kay. So Barbara Kay is a longtime columnist for the National Post, as well as a contributor to various other publications, including The Dorchester Review, Reality's Last Stand, as well as the Colette in addition to being the author and coauthor of four different books with her most recent in 2021 titled Unsporting How Trans Activism and Science Denial Are Destroying Sport. So welcome, Barbara. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. It's wonderful having you. So to start out, I want to ask a little bit about kind of what got you started and the trajectory that you've had throughout your career in terms of the various topics that you've discussed. So in your work, I know that you've often critiqued a number of various aspects of wokeness, including things like modern feminism as well as identity politics. So I'm curious what personal experiences or even shifts in culture have you experienced that have motivated you to take this stance, especially despite the fact that it runs against the dominant narrative oftentimes? Well, I think that my best advantage is that I was born a very long time ago, so I came to maturity before the kind of reigning orthodoxies of the age. I went to university at a time when very, very few women did. But it was sort of taken for granted in the cultural enclave where I grew up that women should go to university, even though my parents had not gone. And at university, most of my professors were male. I don't know what politics they had because it wasn't professors did not discuss their politics with their students. I never thought it was odd that my only female teacher was a marvelous Latin professor. I think I majored in classics for the first two years. Anyways, none of those things occurred to me as being strange. I never said to myself, I'm not represented by, you know, anybody that looks like me or has my religion. I don't think I had any Jewish professors at that time. You have U of Toronto. They were either British or Heritage Canadian types or Americans. So I wasn't trained to think that this was terrible or bad or that I was being badly served as a woman or as a Jew or as any of my other strong identities. And and and yet I was I was a happy camper. I thought university was the best time of my life. It taught me I already had a good head start on how to think critically because I had wonderful high school teachers who stressed writing essays and, you know, proving your point and, you know, creating a thesis and providing evidence for it. I mean, this was all very standard in those days. And so at university, I really reveled in the in the education I got, which provided me with the kind of thought processes and and instincts, intellectual instincts that that questioned any, you know, sort of ideology or thesis or hypothesis or. So I was in a good position to push back even, you know, because I was pre feminist. So I was I was I was well positioned to see the flaws in the arguments that feminism was making and my own lived experience, you know, helped to. So I guess. And also my reading material when I grew up in the in the fifties, the it was a fairly conservative culture. Not saying it was great in every respect. I'm not saying that was free from deficits. There were many, but it was pre feminist and it was conservative. And yet a lot of my generation, the women in my generation who ended up being pretty high achievers, a lot of them had no problem, you know, melding their their lives as as very traditional women with ambition and and success. So I guess I was lucky that the short answer is I was lucky in my timing. Okay. So kind of along the lines of what you're talking about there, it sounds like there is a great deal of respect for intellectual diversity when you were in school rather than diversity, as you know, we're hearing about it today. So I sense that that made a big difference, that students were there to learn and that was that. But what dangers do you think exist in this shift between respecting intellectual diversity as you experience versus maybe what students today are experiencing in academia? Well, the biggest shift is that students who don't who don't follow a certain party line in terms of values and principles and ideas feel threatened and they are threatened. They can lose marks. They can, you know, fail. Of course, they can be persecuted by their fellow students. All kinds of bad things can happen to them. None of that was a problem for anybody I knew at university. And there were all kinds of there were band, the Bombers who paraded around the university, you know, and we just kind of laughed at them because they okay, fine, easy to say. But, you know, they seem to us like kind of a sort of sad group of people who, you know, we didn't take them tremendously seriously, but we also didn't harass them or say, get out of here or, you know, you're evil or anything like that. So I was always a conservative. I never went through a phase where I was, you know, a lot of a lot of conservatives are people who were mugged by reality. They were all you know, they were on the left and and had to be kind of dragged kicking and screaming out of the left when they saw I always I read Orwell when I was very young. I read Ayn Rand, for God's sake. I mean, I, I loved Ayn Rand's books and I, I was under no illusion to think that, my God, she's she's, you know, she's nailed it all. I saw the problems with her extremism, too. But she she had all the best arguments against socialism and so I never went through that phase of being a ban. The bomber, who then, you know, was plunked on the head by the bad news about about the left. So it sounds like in large part your writing today just comes from the experiences and the fact that this is just what you're seeing and you're sharing with others what you're seeing. You're not trying to necessarily go against the grain. Do you find, though, that people presume things about you, about your values and things such as that? Sure they do. They think they they think I'm very, first of all, very dour and very tough and very mean. And, you know, I've had I've had several people who have met me in person who said, I had a very wrong impression of you. You're funny and you you'd like to laugh. And, you know, you're you seem to be so stern and so yielding. And I said, well, I think as a polemicist, you kind of have to take a stand that is, you know, show that you have conviction. And I do that. And I did learn to be a kind of aggressive polemicist from the people I admired the most. You know, I mean, I was reading Commentary magazine, you know, from my tweets, like, my God. And I thought, wow, that's the kind of polemicist if I were going to be one that I would want to be. I never thought that it was I never thought it was within my gift to even touch the hem of the garments of these great rhetorician rhetoricians and and thinkers and intellectuals. So I never presumed that I thought you had to have some very special qualifications to become a journalist for many, many years. And and so it was kind of accidentally that I got into. I wanted to teaching like so many young women of my generation, part time, because it was part time teaching at CEGEPs and that sort of thing. So I could, you know, privilege my family life above. But then when my kids were grown up, you know, and I was looking for other stuff to do and became more activist in Quebec. I lived in Quebec since I was married. I married a quebecer. I came to Montreal and very immersed in when the separatist movement became very strong. I began to I had never been particularly interested in politics, but that forced me to become interested. And and it was in the nineties when the second referendum campaign that I became very active in the anti separatist movement and started writing for some small magazine in Quebec and which led to, you know, appearing first in the National Post. The very first thing that I wrote for them was on Quebec politics and but I was so many things started to interest me anyways at that time because it coincided that it was a tumultuous time in Canada, everywhere and then when 911 happened and identity politics, anti-Zionism, all these big issues that that sort of exploded, I was captured by, you know, I said I have to have to write about this, have to write about that. So yeah. That's okay. So, Oren, I know that you have a whole bunch of questions. I'm going to take a step back for a second and let you take the lead here. There's so many. But let's just start with one, since, you know, you have been in journalism for so long. So what would you say? Like, what are you saying? I mean, I know what I see, but what do you see as far as the ethos or the, you know, the mindset of the journalists, let's say back when you started versus those today, what are the biggest differences? Well, the biggest difference I see is that journalists, like the professors I had, were all independent. A lot of them were highly educated. They were they were interested. They were educated in other subjects other than journalism. Before they went into journalism, they were historians or they were economists or they were they, you know, the journalism schools. Everybody thinks now you you want to be a journalist, You go to journalism school. I didn't know any journalists of my generation or even following me or preceding me that I went to journalism school. They had ideas. They were big readers. They had a knack for writing and they wrote. They wrote what you know, and they investigated and they and they sort if they had a hypothesis, they saw evidence for it. Nobody I knew was writing strictly from an ideological position. And amongst the people that I respected, those who were writing from an ideological perspective, like I have stone and all these, you know, very hard left writers, they were not take it very seriously. I mean, they had to be taken seriously because they they had a lot of influence. But in amongst the people that I respected, it was it was journalists role was to was to look at the world, look at the sector that interested them, read everything they could, interview people, you know, gather evidence and then come to a conclusion and write about it. So that's the big difference that the young people today that go to journalism school, they start out with a certainty, a certainty that there is a right way of looking at the world and a wrong way. And they are they're passionate about that certainty. They but that's how ideologies are. So some of them are interested in gender, some of them are interested in anti-Americanism or anti Republicanism or anti before Trump, it was anti George Bush ism, whatever. But the certainty comes first. I mean, the prime offender in this respect is, you know, big, huge corporations like the CBC and the BBC, they have their position and they're supported by the government. And in their mind, there's only one one position. There's there's and the Liberal Party represents it usually 90% of the time. And anybody else that doesn't is far right. They never see themselves as far left or left. They see themselves as as I think they see themselves as the right, you know, on the right side of history. On the right side of history, this is as if history has a right and a wrong side. You know, I don't think history does so much. I mean, anyways, that's the big difference between, you know, if you look at the guys I admired, you know, Rex Murphy and George Jonas and Christie Blatchford and, you know, all these marvelous and Terry Glavin, who, thank God is still with us. And these are these are people that are true investigators and and I really am not fit to, you know, touch the hem of their garments because I don't have that kind of stick to itiveness to do such deep dives and stay with it for months and months and months at a time on any given subject. But they make wonderful sources for opinion columnists like me that write shorter pieces. And, you know, I mean, they they are the source for much of my my own thinking and my own convictions. Okay. And I'm not sure how close you are to the topic and seeing what's going on. But, you know, both Melanie, I we have many clients or patients who are in, you know, every industry you can imagine. And, you know, they've they've attained high positions. And they say at this point they say or powerless to do anything, the lunatics are running the asylum and the few people who are in charge, they either are on the same side as the lunatics, so to speak, or they're just too cowardly to, you know, sort of stand up to them and say, no, this is not the right way. Yeah. And so on. So what have you seen at the National Post or I mean, what do your colleagues and other news industry say about that? Well, I do think that, you know, people use the word cowardice. I hesitate to use that word. I don't think it's very odd. You know, people say to me, you were so courageous to write that column. And I say, I'm not courageous. The National Post. I publish in the National Post. And if they weren't going to publish it, where was I going to publish it? Like, I'm not courageous enough to stand on a street corner and scream out my politics. It's the National Post that I think is courageous in bucking, you know, the trend. And a lot of people say even the National Post doesn't go far enough. Well, maybe it doesn't for their taste. It's not the Gates Stone Institute. No, it's not the Middle East Forum. No. But I think considering it's mainstream media, it's it's doing a bang up job in Canada, since it's the only national newspaper that actually takes a dissenting view of most of the craziness that currently passes for acceptable discourse or acceptable ideology. And yes, the lunatics are running the asylum. However, it's not cowardice so much as a desperate need to not be cut out from your herd. So depending on what your herd is, I mean, corporations are very nervous about the people that work for them and that seem to have taken control of, you know, and they're responsible for four to all kinds of, you know, shareholders. And so it's I don't I don't know if it's cowardice or just kind of they're deer in the headlights. They don't quite know what to do, but it's coming at them from all sides. You know, this you have to do the stuff. You have to do this. You have to do that. And I think they don't have the they've never cultivated the the kind of intellectual resources that you need to combat the this is social justice. When you hear those words, social justice, you get a little bit paralyzed. I don't want to be against social justice. And they have all the arguments honed because that's all they do. They sit in the faculty lounges and they sit and they and they hone the arguments that they know will resonate,

diversity, equity, inclusion. These are sound like amazing words. Who could be against them? You have to do a pretty deep dive into what these words actually mean. You have to spend a lot of time. You have Orrin and I have, and I guess Melanie. You have to or you wouldn't be on this podcast. So we have done that deep dive. And once you've done it, it becomes part of your second nature. Like, you know, you know, the arguments against the arguments and then you're shocked by how many people are just they just shut up because they don't know the arguments, because it just sounds so good. inclusion. Yeah. Guys who think they're women, it would be exclusion to keep them out of women's sports and it would be exclusion to keep them out of. They have they don't they don't understand the the the irrationality of what they're signing on to. But they do know one thing. If you're a civil servant, you don't want to be the only person in your department that is asking the wrong questions. You want to get along with everybody in your department. And if you're teaching at a university, you sure as hell do not want to stick your neck out even for a colleague because you could be next on the chopping block. These people wield real weapons, real weapons, and they will get you. My my column in the Post this weekend was exactly about someone who took it was about cancel culture and it was about somebody who lost his job. He was appointed to the head of the Alberta Human Rights Commission and deserved to be. Within three months he was gone because of a concerted attack on him by a combination of. Of. Progressives and, you know, the usual red green alliance progressives and Islamists. They went after him. And even Jason Kenney, who was the premier of Alberta at the time, he was helpless against the pressure. These groups, they're very organized bring. So I don't think I think it's hurt. I think it's unfair to call somebody a coward whose livelihood, his mortgage, who has, you know, that they buckle under that kind of and you add to it their fear of being isolated, because to be isolated and shunned from the herd as a psychologist, you know better than anyone on to be shunned is is. And that's why solitary confinement is such a terrible punishment. To be isolated is a horror. It's a nightmare for even the strongest person. You have to be made of some very special stuff to withstand that. So when people say, you're courageous. No, I'm not courageous. I'm not courageous. If I didn't have a life, if I if my kids were threatened or my job was threatened or my this was threatened about that, I'd buckle pretty fast. I mean, you get me, you know, in one of those cells with the bright lights and, you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't last a day. So I don't I don't consider courage. I consider it lucky that I'm in a position where I can say, you know, my tone has to be bright, my facts have to be right. You know, I have to be careful. But I at least I can I can be in that camp and I, I don't depend on my journalism for my mortgage or my you know, this is this is a I'm really privileged in that respect. So just to make sure people understand, I am not the people that are really courageous are the people that stick their necks out. Knowing that cancellation will could has the potential to ruin their life. That's courage. Okay. And just one more question, Molly, because in the long term thread so I mean, we know the institutions, the accolades, first of all, it's the universities. But now we're also seeing in the public schools as well, you know, K through 12 have been captured basically. But the fact is, any kid going to university or high school wherever they have parents who can also serve as some kind of a filter or moral compass. And so over the years, you've you know, you've been around longer than I have and Molly has. So, I mean, I know what shifts I have seen, but for yourself personally, when you look at the parenting, whether it's ideology or principles or parenting style, how involved there and so on, what major changes have you seen that have allowed so much of the ideology to seep in through, you know, to the kids where, you know, wherever they are? Like what I have seen in younger people that are parents, I mean, my own children, I think in a way are a bit of an exception in that they both are very levelheaded, very rational, very I mean, they they're not unquestioning. And in fact, they they've shown, I would say, some courage at both of them, in their own in their own spheres of professionally and whatnot. So but in general, I would say that younger people, parents have lost their confidence. We were pretty confident when we were young parents because we didn't have a lot of competition from young parents. Today, the competition for their children's attention is massive and I think they feel helpless. Many of them feel helpless, and because they see it also in their fellow parents. I mean, if you I remember when I was supporting a mother of a child in grade one who had been told she'd come home and started having nightmares because the teacher had said she was six years old and the teacher had been really pushing gender ideology. And she was saying to this little girl who was very confident in her before all this started in her girlness and she was saying, there's really no such thing as girls or boys. And, you know, doing that. SPECTRUM Where do you think you are on the spectrum? Here's girl, here's boy, and where do you see yourself Like, you know, all these and the little videos and little books that they were reading them about. So this little girl was very sensitive to this, and she started crying and asking her mother, Aren't I a girl? And anyways, this this mother wasn't having any of the both parents were not having any of it. And they took the school board. Eventually they didn't get answers. But one of the things that I remember about that case and they lost that the human rights, but they were and the mother went on to start her own. It became a big success for her online gender dissenting publication. I mean, that group, I believe that's Pam. Okay. Yeah, right. Yes. Buffoni the before you U.A. it's very public so it's it's I'm not giving anything away that case I what impressed me one of the one of the one of the negative effects that I recognized about that case was that Pamela was strong. She was not abrasive. She was not like she did everything right. And when she brought the subject to a parent teacher meeting and she got up and she said, listen, you know, our kids, this is not like kids when they're six years old. This is too sophisticated, you know, for them to understand that that that she went through the whole thing. And I think, you know, she was presenting a motion to try to get some of this material out of the nobody voted with her like it was omerta. Afterwards, they all came over to her. Why so agree with you? I so agree with you. And I thought, jeez, is this you're sending to your own children that, hey, kid, don't make trouble. We'll just go with the flow here and, you know, and more. They're they actually convinced themselves, well, if the teachers are saying it and and and the media's saying it and everybody else's, it just shows you how even intelligent people and I'm sure most of them were extremely intelligent, can be sucked into a movement because they look around the room first before they look into their own into their own critical thinking resources. And the person I guess it's called courage. Now, when somebody says they look at what they're hearing and they look around the room and instead of saying, nobody's voting, you know, they say, what's wrong with these people? This is crazy talk. You know? And the reason I say it is because of my I really think it's because of my age. I don't know if I were young today and I had grown up with the Internet and I had grown up with Tik-Tok and I'd grown up with social media and I'd grown up with all this other stuff. It's true. The parents of my own kids age did not grow up with that, but they did grow up with the Internet. Would I be any different? What? I have not succumbed to all this talk about social justice and blah blah blah. The only reason I could think of that maybe I wouldn't have is because I'm Jewish and I know my history. I know my Jewish history, and I know that the left, the far left, has been as bad for Jews as the far right. And so I've always had that. And maybe that's part of my identity is the outsider role. Never truly, you know, always having that little bag packed somewhere, even when things are great. And by the way, things were great for Jews when I was growing up because it was post Holocaust and and it was quite fresh and everybody was horrified. And we all fought anti-Semitism. Okay? This is I mean, it's unthinkable what happened. And you can never say something good came out of a horror like that. But you can say that the world could get changed from it. We really believed in that change because we had good reason to. Our kids were far more accepted. They I remember my I remember my son telling me once he went to a boys school, he started out at a parochial school, but it wasn't for him. He wasn't so good at languages and he he needed a lot more physical activity. But anyways, so he went to this boys school in Montreal, private boys school, where at the time there were very few Jewish students. Now I think it's probably a third to a quarter or half Jewish. I don't know. Anyway, at the time it was mostly WASP, you know, that was very wasp. But he made wonderful friends there and he, more than one of them, said to him very candidly, yeah, you know, my my dad's a big anti-Semite. He says, You know, I keep telling dad that's over. Like, they were very candid and they both and they all saw themselves as, Yeah, yeah, we're the new generation. They don't realize that's old news that's finished. So I took heart from that. I thought, and so I really think I was in this bubble. So I do think that I grew up in this golden age of, of the time when we thought anti-Semitism was all we really believed it was over because of the Holocaust. And that and before anti-Zionism became a huge thing and anti and identity politics and and the whole takeover of the schools that the whole well was after 1968 that it started, you know with the with the with the the revolutions in the schools anti-Vietnam and that's where it all started. But it didn't it didn't it didn't burst out of the faculty lounges. I think it was Durbin and 911 that allowed it to sort of, you know, in effect explosion into. But I in my day when I was a teenager, public schools were showing as part of our history lessons we saw. And that was the first time, by the way, that I had seen the newsreels from the liberation of the of the camps after the Holocaust. And I saw the bodies stacked up like the dead bodies stacked up like cordwood. And I it was an incredible shock. I remember bursting into tears in the classroom and going home because it was visual. I knew I knew there was a Holocaust. I knew. But and looking back, I'm saying to myself, yes, it was a shock. We didn't know from trigger warnings in those days. It was just, you know, we were learning European history and we and the Holocaust was part of it. But now I see it as well. They really this this was a public school and they were teaching the Holocaust as the worst thing that ever happened. And now there's a whole movement to not even have Holocaust education because it offends certain members of the community and literally, you know, you can't you can't taught you. I used to go and do Holocaust Memorial Center. I take the kids from schools, you know, on these tours of the Holocaust Center in Montreal. I don't think they do that anymore. I don't think that's done. So forgive my ignorance on the topic, but offends in what way? Like because it's triggering or not. I don't want to hear about the Jewish Holocaust. They want to talk about the Palestinian Nakba, which they see. They they literally everything in their identity is an appropriation of Jewish history. And so there was supposed to be a memorial for a survivor of the Holocaust. Was it in Vancouver, Victoria, B.C., somewhere that was canceled in Canada just now, and they gave some babbling context offensive, certain blah blame members of the community, blah blah blah. So she was her it was going to be a tribute to her. I'm sorry. I wish I could think of that. Exactly. What why was being honored Doesn't matter. But it was canceled. And we know why. And and that's going to happen more and more frequently. It already does happen. We know in Europe, this is teach even teaching. The Holocaust is now in certain communities. It is not taught. And whether it is appropriate even to teach it to anybody anymore, We're we're in a very strange era, a very bad one. But as I say, I escaped all that. And I'm in the in my sunset years. I'm I'm being exposed to it. And I'm you know, and I realize it was a total illusion that anything to do with anti-Semitism is over. And I remember Ruth Weiss, the famous, you know, scholar, Jewish. It does scholar Ruth Weiss in her 2007 book. I remember her writing The Nazis only had the power to eradicate European Jews. She said It's going to get worse because Islamism has for its ambition to eradicate the Jews all over the world and they are going to be in a position to give it a good try, unlike, you know. So they are really the true in inheritors of the Nazi legacy. They are Nazis. It's Islamofascism. And I'm not saying they to I'm not saying 2 billion Muslims are Nazis. What I'm saying is those who embrace the basically the Muslim Brotherhood doctrine, you know, which does seek to eradicate all Jews. Hamas is a Nazi organization that seeks to eradicate Jews not just in Israel, but all over the world. So here we are have meandered too far from the questions that you either I tend to do that just drag me back any time. You know, if I don't if I don't sort of tether myself. Okay. Now it's good. I think you touched on a lot of really important things there, and I'm kind of struggling to figure out where to land with that. But I imagine you get a lot of criticism for some of the things that you've said there. So you've kind of answered and filled in the blanks as far as, you know, your experience and just the area that you grew up in has empowered you in many ways to be able to be stronger in your opinions. So I guess my question is twofold. So how do you deal with the criticism that you receive and what advice would you give to people, let's say of my age and younger who are trying to stand up and speak against these ridiculous things that are happening out there with the understanding that there is going to be criticism and backlash and potential impacts on careers. I don't think people should try to do it alone. I think it's very important that you not feel isolated, that you feel that you're have a support circle, that you respect and trust. So right now, if anything, there's there's a plethora of wonderful groups that are fighting anti-Semitism, and some of them are very big, like there's the global combating anti-Semitism movement that is global, that does a lot of fantastic information gathering on what's happening, where who's who's doing it. I think a lot of I would follow. There are fantastic sub stacks that deal with, you know, this issue and that combatted in various ways. Look, I would I would take inspiration for people like Douglas Murray, who is incredible journalist who doesn't allow himself to get flustered or anything else. And he is supporting him, supporting his message, getting his message out there. There are people to follow. And I think I think self-education is really important. I think knowing how to answer the lies, the disinformation, not just the misinformation, but the disinformation that is a stock in trade for pro-Hamas and pro terror and anti-Semites. They they don't have any respect for facts or evidence. So we need people like honest reporting. For example, I I'm a big supporter of honest reporting, social media. I think it's very important for people to be on social media. And I do a lot of like for every one column that I write on this subject, you know, I put a 150 to 200 tweets on, you know, reposting podcasts and substack and, you know, marvelous interviews that I hear legal experts like Natasha Howe, staff who, you know, just counters every single stupid argument. I think joining political groups that say parent groups, there is a what's the name of it? There's a parent group in in in Toronto. Jewish educators fighting anti-Semitism, Jaffa. And it's parents. And they go to the school boards and they they correct like they are present at the school board meetings, and they stand up and they they counter, you know, we should not be having anti-Palestinian racism and ideology in our schools. Why? Because it is it it demands that that everyone respect not only Palestinian Palestinians as human. There's all kinds of blah, blah, blah, blah or their narratives. In other words, anybody that criticizes or dehumanizes Palestinians by not accepting that religion or the listeners of that or their narratives, that is in the definition of anti-Palestinian racism and how it is just been allowed to. I mean, it was it was it was it was actually coined by the Canadian Arab Association Lawyers Association, Canadian Arab Lawyers Association. The narrative, the chief narrative of of Palestinian activism is Zionism, is racism. So if you say I am a Zionist, that is anti Palestinian racism and the Canadian government is thinking of criminalizing anti Palestinian racism as though Palestinians, I don't know how many are there in Toronto, like maybe 40,000 above all people in the world. Everybody's from somewhere. Everybody has a gripe somewhere in the world against are we going to have anti Pakistani and Pakistani and racism so that you can't say I like Hindus? What I mean, this is this is insane. This is part of the insane asylum is that we are singling out Palestinians as being uniquely trampled upon people and why for no reason other than that there are Islamist groups promoting, just like the Islamophobia definition, which was coined by the Muslim Brotherhood, includes criticism of Islam. It's not just hatred of Muslims. Any criticism of Islam is considered Islamophobia by these groups. And and we have a government that promotes this stuff and school boards, anybody else. And is there nobody in the government that looks at it and says, whoa, whoa, wait, don't we have free speech in this country? Of course, you can criticize of Islam, but it's like sales over their heads because they're part of the this matrix of willed misunderstanding in order to appease and keep the peace and to continue the fiction that multiculturalism means that all cultures are interchangeable in terms of value. We know that it's not the case, but nobody. And now we have this Canada initiative that wants all we have to be 100 million people. I believe Mark Carney signed on to this. We we need to be 100 million people in Canada, really, where all these people coming from because we're not reproducing at you know, we're not reproducing ourselves. The people that are already here where all these like 60 million new people going to come. Well, it doesn't matter to them because it doesn't matter. They think they're like little figurines that you just move across the board. So, you know, well, we need 60 million more. You know, bring them in and it'll be will be a much more prosperous, wonderful country. I'm sorry, you asked a very good question. What can you do? And I here I am going on a you've got to stop me. You've got to go. I like what you're saying. No, no, no. Anyway, if you're a parent and you're a Jewish parent, I don't know. Are you Jewish? You're not Jewish. I'm not. All right. Doesn't mean that you can't join these groups. And thank you, by the way, for being here. Just being here. But there are so many groups that are doing good work. It's just a question of how you want to, you know, be part of it if you want to be vocal, you can actually go to parent teacher meetings in your kids and you can support the it's something like look it up. GM If a Jewish educators, it doesn't mean you have to be Jewish to be part of what they're doing. They're doing the hard work. They're there getting the petitions together. They're fighting back on the spot. I wish I could think of all but but the media are such a big part and then so groups like Honest reporting really have to be supported. They they get the CBC to make about 70 corrections a year. Of course, nobody sees the corrections because it's on page six at the bottom. But the fact is that they they at least get their attention. They at least, at least the CBC, probably somewhere, you know, before they put out, they say, well, let's make sure honest reporting doesn't isn't down our necks on this one, in spite of which, they still publish a lot of misinformation. Join us next time on A Week at the Wheel for the conclusion of our conversation with journalist Barbara Kaye, where we dive deeper into the psychology of boys and men. The impact of fatherless, this and how political ideology is shaping and sometimes distorting mental health care. You won't want to miss this critical and thought provoking finale.